Can we talk about 5e3? Fender Tweed Deluxe

[Maguchi]

Tweeds are a great sound. You might hear a lot about how nicely they break up. However Tweeds got really great 3 dimensional clean sounds too if you keep the volume knob below 7 (out of 12 not 10).

 

[Athos]

My 5E3 gets dirty well before 7 on the bright volume knob (I plug into the bright high input, run the tone pretty high, and usually have the normal volume around halfway up). And it's got a 12AY7 in the first gain stage, so it's not even trying to be extra dirty. With humbuckers, it'll start to lightly break up around 2, with Filtertrons 3, and with Strat single coils 4-5. It has a wonderfully broad 'sweet spot' between totally clean and distorted, so it's easy to stay in the edge-of-breakup zone that I like. If I engage the negative feedback switch, I get a slight volume drop and the amp stays cleaner several notches higher up on the volume knob. I mostly use the NFB with my Gretsch when I want more clean headroom. The Strat sounds great in the middle of the volume range with a little dirt, and I don't even try to play clean with humbuckers!

 

[renderit]

Tweeds are a great sound. You might hear a lot about how nicely they break up. However Tweeds got really great 3 dimensional clean sounds too if you keep the volume knob below 7 (out of 12 not 10).

View attachment 32194

One of the best things about the Tweed.

The sounds when they are NOT cranked all the way up!

Which, truth be known, is the actual intended use.

A Bassman, Pro, Deluxe, etc. circuit at 3-5 has a beautiful sound that is hard to describe but you nailed it!

 

[charliechitlins]

I gig a Bassman 90% of the time.
I'll gig it this weekend in a new room I'm unsure about.
If I can crank it into the sweet spot, great; but if not, the cleans are so fat and juicy, I won't miss the overdtive.
There's that "tweed clean" that is a little hard to explain, but you can learn to know it when you hear it.
It's not pristine Twin Reverb clean.
It has a little fur on it, but it's not distorted.
I'm pretty sure Jimi's intro to Little Wing is a Bassman...or something very much like it.
Tweed clean.

 

[jb_abides]

Many boutiques builders have modified the 5e3 topology with negative feedback plus tightening of the bass response and more inherent headroom to capitalize on this "Tweed Clean" use case...

 

[Offshore Angler]

I feel the need for tweed. Tweeds are the easiest amps to dial in too. Turn up the volume until you hear the hiss and then back it off just a smidge. That's their happy place. Breakup on demand.

 

[Offshore Angler]

Many boutiques builders have modified the 5e3 topology with negative feedback plus tightening of the bass response and more inherent headroom to capitalize on this "Tweed Clean" use case...

Meh, if you want Fender clean the blackface amps are where it's at. Let a tweed be a tweed, don't try to make it a Deluxe Reverb because it will never be as good as a DR clean.

 

[LeonC]

And while we're enjoying the classic tweed from Fender, it's worth noting that Gibson had some pretty badass tweed circuits too.

I'm in the process of restoring this old Epiphone Pathfinder. It's the same as the very early Gibson Falcon GA-19RVT Crestline; the earliest version after the tweeds, shared all the tweed DNA except for the reverb driver/recovery tube.

 

[charliechitlins]

Meh, if you want Fender clean the blackface amps are where it's at. Let a tweed be a tweed, don't try to make it a Deluxe Reverb because it will never be as good as a DR clean.

But if you want to find a place in a live mix, the tweed mid hump is the money, as opposed to the blackface mid scoop.
Now, if you'd have said blackface Super Reverb...

 

[Offshore Angler]

But if you want to find a place in a live mix, the tweed mid hump is the money, as opposed to the blackface mid scoop.
Now, if you'd have said blackface Super Reverb...

OK, YMMV, but personally I could not disagree more. Mids are not your friend in a mix unless you add some 1k+ sparkle to the top to add separation. Mids are not where I want to be if I want to be heard. The band mix gets pretty crowded between 200 & 900 Hz.

Think about it, I have a rhythm player and keyboards already competing for that 400 Hz-ish range. I don't want to blow through all that by volume alone. If you're in a mix and can't hear yourself at a reasonable stage volume, it's usually a good bet the mids are too high.

(Unless your initials are JB and then you can play the mids at hyper-insane volume, but even so Joe also always keeps something going to add some crispiness to his sound to make it clear. No matter how many Dumbles you see onstage you can bet dang sure the rack of Jubilees offstage are on and in the mix all the time. It's all those upper-end harmonics that add "life" to the guitar sound.)

Just trust your sound engineer. I always have my guitar monitor off the board FOH EQ so I can hear what he's giving the audience and play accordingly. Using the amp speaker for your monitor is never optimum since it usually sounds quite a bit different out front through the mains. The power amps will add all the girth you need.


Like I said, YMMV and that's cool.

Chuck

 

[jb_abides]

Meh, if you want Fender clean the blackface amps are where it's at. Let a tweed be a tweed, don't try to make it a Deluxe Reverb because it will never be as good as a DR clean.

This was referring to Charlie's preceding post... Not the same, and not looking for it to be exactly Blackface. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Athos]

I prefer the clean sound of my tweed deluxe to the clean sound of blackface amps in general. And I used to own a Super Reverb. Outstanding amp, loved it almost as much as my old Marshall, but I definitely prefer the tweed sound personally. That’s merely regarding the quality of the tone, not taking into account volume and headroom of course. The Super Reverb might be a more versatile gigging amp.

 

[ampdan]

And while we're enjoying the classic tweed from Fender, it's worth noting that Gibson had some pretty badass tweed circuits too.

I'm in the process of restoring this old Epiphone Pathfinder. It's the same as the very early Gibson Falcon GA-19RVT Crestline; the earliest version after the tweeds, shared all the tweed DNA except for the reverb driver/recovery tube.

My first, and still my favorite. 1963 GA-19RVT

 

[LeonC]

My first, and still my favorite. 1963 GA-19RVTView attachment 32243

Is yours one of the early ones with the tweed-like circuit? Or is it one of the later ones with the cleaner sound?

 

[Wilko]

OK, YMMV, but personally I could not disagree more. Mids are not your friend in a mix unless you add some 1k+ sparkle to the top to add separation. Mids are not where I want to be if I want to be heard. The band mix gets pretty crowded between 200 & 900 Hz.

Think about it, I have a rhythm player and keyboards already competing for that 400 Hz-ish range. I don't want to blow through all that by volume alone. If you're in a mix and can't hear yourself at a reasonable stage volume, it's usually a good bet the mids are too high.

(Unless your initials are JB and then you can play the mids at hyper-insane volume, but even so Joe also always keeps something going to add some crispiness to his sound to make it clear. No matter how many Dumbles you see onstage you can bet dang sure the rack of Jubilees offstage are on and in the mix all the time. It's all those upper-end harmonics that add "life" to the guitar sound.)

Just trust your sound engineer. I always have my guitar monitor off the board FOH EQ so I can hear what he's giving the audience and play accordingly. Using the amp speaker for your monitor is never optimum since it usually sounds quite a bit different out front through the mains. The power amps will add all the girth you need.


Like I said, YMMV and that's cool.

Chuck

mids are up to at least 2k for electric guitar, no? 1k isn't "sparkle". Certainly where you want to be. 1-2k is where the magic is.

I think the point is that too many guitar players think they need "tight bass" or thick oomph. You don't want or need any of that. like you said, it muddies the mix as it fights with the keys, bass, or second guitar

 

[ampdan]

Is yours one of the early ones with the tweed-like circuit? Or is it one of the later ones with the cleaner sound?

It is exactly like the tweed version inside. Laid out the same. Thick nasty cello like tone.

 

[LeonC]

It is exactly like the tweed version inside. Laid out the same. Thick nasty cello like tone.

Love that sound! So you've got a Crestline with the tweed circuit? What's the tube compliment?

 

[Vanaspatti77]

“Can we talk about the 5e3?” I am not an expert on amps and the plethora of options in existence but I am an expert in what sounds I like and I can say with confidence that there are only 3 amps I think are worth talking about. Number one is the 5e3. Number 2 is the AC30. And Number 3 is an odd thing called the Herzog by Garnet Amps. Now these are my personal favorites but the truth is that 90% or more of all amps are designed to sound like the 5e3 (or other Fender Amps, original Marshalls are literally Fender clones with European equivalent electronics) or the AC30 Top Boost. So realistically, yes, please talk about the 5e3. I don’t own a 5e3 but my ideal theoretical amp would be a 5e3 lunchbox head. The Herzog is a device that has about 5 watts of power and can be used as an amplifier or effect that gives you the Randy Bachman American Woman buzzing/zipping sound. I don’t own one of these either but I love that sound. The amps I do own are all low wattage heads that are designed to sound like Tweeds, Vox’s, and Marshalls. I am not trying to overstep my bounds here, just, enthusiastic about Les Pauls played through Tweeds.

 

[Vanaspatti77]

I am playing through a Tone Marshal TRM 1x10 cabinet with a Warehouse GC10 speaker. I don’t know about old wood vs new or what Fender is using these days but my cabinet is solid pine boards that have been ripped and aligned to avoid warping, then re-glued and joined with half blind dovetails. The baffle and back pieces are Baltic birch plywood and it is assembled to the old Fender specs. I have never played an old tweed amp but I swear by this cabinet. http://www.trmguitarcabs.com/

 

[Mr. Papa]

I’ve built, modded, and bought 5E3 clones but have never played a vintage model. Does anyone have a quality A/B comparison on YouTube or elsewhere where to share? Or can anyone comment from experience whether clones can be made to sound as good? There seems to be a camp who believes that the vintage models have a secret sauce that can’t be replicated.