Roller bridge to replace stock ABR bridge on Les Paul

[stevebrit]

I'm fitting a Duesenberg tremolo to one of my Les Pauls that are fitted with Gibson ABR bridges. What makes and models of roller bridge will just drop on without mods, changing posts etc? Looking around it's a bit of a minefield given the different post hole sizes and hole centres. I want something to just drop on in place of the stock ABR. Cheers.

 

[jb_abides]

Assuming classic ABR-1 posts and spacing, look at ABM 2400n‑RO, 'n' for nickel; also a 'c' for chrome.

If you meant 'ABR' in the generic 'TOM' sense, and have Nashville posts and spacing, there are more alternatives.

 

[stevebrit]

No, I don't have Nashville bridge, I made it clear it was a stock ABR bridge. Thanks, that one you mentioned looks a good product.

 

[GreenBurst]

I've used the ABM roller bridge to replace the ABR-1 on an LP Custom BB4. No issues installing or setting it up.

Unfortunately, the 'attach files' feature doesn't work for me anymore. Not sure why... ?

For a pic see post#8 in the link below.

https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/2025-1954-les-paul-custom.227916/#post-2987373

 

[Wilko]

Nashville and ABR1 have the same spacing and are interchangable.

 

[Happy Tree]

Assuming classic ABR-1 posts and spacing, look at ABM 2400n‑RO, 'n' for nickel; also a 'c' for chrome.

If you meant 'ABR' in the generic 'TOM' sense, and have Nashville posts and spacing, there are more alternatives.

Thanks for the recommendation. I just got one for my 355 with Dus trem. If I like it I'll get ones for the other Gibsons too. I haven't had any tuning issues as-is, but I do use the trem very gingerly. The rollers will just give me that extra peace of mind!

 

[Offshore Angler]

My experience has been that rollers are nice for a case queen or hobbyist but if the guitar gets used in battle you're better off without them. Sweat and skin and grime will render them stuck pretty quickly, You also need to run a reduced break angle for them to work well. I've found the Shaller the most dependable and the adjustable string spacing is nice, but still not great.

In any event just remember a roller nut does nothing to address the nut and that's where trem-equipped guitars usually have an issue. Especially Les Pauls because of the angled headstock and no straight pull string path.

The other thing to watch out for is on some roller nuts if you break a string the roller and axle rod can fall out of the bridge since they are only held in by string tension. That, of course, renders the guitar useless for the rest of the show.

Additionally, placement of the trem unit needs to be spaced properly to prevent the strings binding on the back of the bridge, i.e., measure twice and drill once.

My advice is that if you want to use a trem bar equipped Gibson get a Floyd Rose equipped trem and locking nut.

There's a reason why snake-bites are common on Lesters .
YMMV,

Chuck

 

[Offshore Angler]

I've used the ABM roller bridge to replace the ABR-1 on an LP Custom BB4. No issues installing or setting it up.

Unfortunately, the 'attach files' feature doesn't work for me anymore. Not sure why... ?

For a pic see post#8 in the link below.

https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/2025-1954-les-paul-custom.227916/#post-2987373

So, you're telling us you removed the stop tailpiece, ABR1, left the stock fret wire on the obviously un-levelled fretboard, left the original nut on and replaced the P90's with mini-humbuckers to make it play and sound better? This I need more info on! I'm starting at curious but you have to admit - there are questions.

I do like the Grovers though, they counterbalance the Bigsby.

 

[GreenBurst]

So, you're telling us you removed the stop tailpiece, ABR1, left the stock fret wire on the obviously un-levelled fretboard, left the original nut on and replaced the P90's with mini-humbuckers to make it play and sound better? This I need more info on! I'm starting at curious but you have to admit - there are questions.

I do like the Grovers though, they counterbalance the Bigsby.

OK, here goes...

It's a 1992 pre-historic LP Custom BB4. Originally it came with the Grovers and P100 and AlNiCo V pickups, 300K pots, ceramic disc caps, teflon wiring, and with a typical Gibson metal control plate in the cavity. It was a very dark sounding LP. The neck pickup was basically unusable for rock.

The neck is a short tenon and was mounted at a fairly high angle. You could not put the stopbar down to the top with less than a 1/4" gap otherwise the strings were putting significant pressure on the ABR-1.

I could get it to play OK, but it didn't sound good.

As part of my mods I re-wired the complete guitar using braided wire, 50s wiring, 500K pots, PIO caps.

I replaced with numerous pickups (SD Custom Shop Humbucker Under A P90 Cover - JB/59; then a DiMarzio Super D in the bridge) but settled on a set of Duncan custom made for me mini-humbuckers. This resolved the darkness and brought clarity to both pickup positions. I eventually needed to do light potting (lacquer coils) on the bridge pickup as it had uncontrollable feedback (ie not musical) when a Tube Screamer was being used.

I added a B7 with vibramate and then replaced the factory ABR-1 with an ABM roller bridge.

The frets are original as is the nut. The fretboard and frets are properly leveled and the guitar plays great across the entire fretboard.

I've owned the guitar since 1993 so I don't have much $ in it and mods were relatively inexpensive. I probably have a total of $1k in it! Flipping it and buying another would have been much more of an outlay.

I don't need the Bigsby per se but now it plays and sounds great, and looks cool. Also, I can now roll the tone controls down as needed.

Weight is about 10lbs 8ozs.

FYI I use a Gibson Deluxe Protector case when playing out. That way I don't have to worry about all the stuff in the original case pocket or the 'brown custom shop case' message when carrying it.

YMMV, but I doubt it.

 

[Offshore Angler]

Cool, but the fretboard was never leveled. You can clearly see the tooling marks from when it was shaped.

 

[GreenBurst]

Cool, but the fretboard was never leveled. You can clearly see the tooling marks from when it was shaped.

I know what you mean. But in that photo the fretboard is dirty and needs cleaning. I have another white Custom where you can clearly see the effect you mention.

Either way, this guitar feels, sounds, and plays great now. That's what counts.

 

[Offshore Angler]

Yeah, that was an issue some years. Generally on a top-end guitar the board gets the inlays installed and the board gets shaped with a radius block, it gets installed on the neck, the neck is installed on the body and then the neck is levelled. Next the frets are installed, they get the ends filed and dressed and then the frets are leveled and crowned. Because Gibson uses nibs they can't level the board after the pre-bound neck is installed, so whatever irregularities are in the board after the binding is installed will be there until the guitar is re-fretted and the board completely leveled. Today they can at least level the frets using the PLEK machine but it doesn't address the fretboard.

If you've ever been in the factory and see how quickly they pump these things out by the hundreds daily you'd be surprised how little time they spend on them. The only area where you see each guitar get singular attention is when the binding gets scraped. Given the cost driver this is, it may likely explain why Customs only come from the Custom Shop now.

Chuck

 

[stevebrit]

I've just visited the ABM web site and it does state that the ABM 2400n‑RO is a 'Nashville' bridge. I don't doubt that it will fit as people have confirmed that much, but nonetheless it's concerning that THEY don't say that's it for use on ABR and Nashville bridge setups. After all, it's in their interest to do so.

 

[jb_abides]

Agree, but there you go.

Here's more for you: ABR-1 bridge posts screw directly into the wood, typically 73.6mm to 74mm (approx. 2.9") center-to-center post spacing. ABR-1 posts 6-32 UNC Imperial thread pitch and direct-mount into the body, generally with no bushings.
-- Bridge & Post Specifications: Post Spacing: 2.9" / 73.6mm - 74mm center-to-center.
-- Thread Type: 6-32 imperial (direct to body).
-- Post Diameter: Approximately 3.9mm - 4mm for the thumbwheel/bridge mounting surface.
-- Radius: 12 inches.

See ABM's specs [quoted below in italics]; also read further in the provided PDF regarding 3.9/4mm diameter, 6-32 UNC, presuming you have a vintage spec / historic reissue with post screws into wood.

You can also email: info@abm-guitarparts.de if you need confirmation from them.

https://abm-guitarpartsshop.com/media/products/2400n_RO_Guide_2400_RO_small.pdf

3. Universal mounting

The ABM 2400-RO uses the standard radius of 12". The bridge body is factory compatible with instruments with a bolt spacing between 71.7 & 75mm and mounting bolts with a maximum head diameter of 4mm.

The bolt spacing, the bolt play, and even the lateral bridge position can be adjusted using the side-mounted lock screws within the slotted holes. The product package includes additional locking screws in 2 different lengths, so that the bolt distances mentioned above can be realized. The locking screws allow mounting on instruments with UNC 6-32 (ABR-1) or M4 threaded pins.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Especially Les Pauls because of the angled headstock and no straight pull string path.

String Butler may help with that. Tusq nut too.
I saw these, look interesting and no mods.
Nut Busters.

Guitar NutBuster® | Locking Tune Stabilizing System for Guitars

The Guitar NutBuster®, is an attachable, user-installed, completely non-invasive Locking Tune Stabilizing System that offers significant control over the most common tuning problems.

www.guitarnutbuster.com

 

[GreenBurst]

I've just visited the ABM web site and it does state that the ABM 2400n‑RO is a 'Nashville' bridge. I don't doubt that it will fit as people have confirmed that much, but nonetheless it's concerning that THEY don't say that's it for use on ABR and Nashville bridge setups. After all, it's in their interest to do so.

Per my post #4 above. I had an ABR-1 on my LP Custom and easily installed the ABM roller bridge (ABM 2400g-RO). There were zero issues.

See the pic.

 

[Offshore Angler]

My suggestion is you install the trem with the stock bridge and see if you like it. It's not like a Floyd in that it will have a small effect, i.e., that style of trem is a subtle effect. If you're looking to do dive-bombs and whammy wangs then yes, you need rollers and a locking nut but for that style of a trem that's used as a tremolo - not so much. You can always add the roller bridge later in the unlikely event that you need it. My only Bigsby-equipped guitar doesn't have a roller bridge and it plays great, stays in tune and makes money.

Chuck

 

[Offshore Angler]

Here she is, ain't she a beauty? As you can see, no rollers and she's been that way a long time. Fun guitar to play and really has a great stage presence. Zero issues with bridge tuning.

 

[darkwave]

I have GraphTech ResoMax bridges on two of my guitars, one with a Bigsby (the other was supposed to get a Bigsby, but I changed course).

I really like the bridge, the tone, and the tuning stability (with locking Sperzel tuners). Perhaps a bit more of a round tone, which I really like for my use with the band.

- Douglas C.