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PAF magnets size question

zorglub!

Burst Detective!
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Aug 13, 2003
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5,230
Would there be any difference sound-wise between:
  • 1960 PAF with a long magnet replacing the original short one
  • 1958 PAF with its original long magnet
I guess my question is if the only change around 1960 was that long magnets in PAFs where replaced with short ones?
 

kthesheep

Active member
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Aug 5, 2004
Messages
2,218
Would there be any difference sound-wise between:
  • 1960 PAF with a long magnet replacing the original short one
  • 1958 PAF with its original long magnet
I guess my question is if the only change around 1960 was that long magnets in PAFs where replaced with short ones?
That's a tough question.
Long= 2 1/2
Short=2 1/4
I have always wondered if the 2 1/4" magnet makes it along all the slugs, How does an 1/8" over each side change the sound.

I have never heard the difference.
 

MapleFlame

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Jul 3, 2005
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14,044
I would think that the strength of the mag is more important than length, but then you have the ohms to think about. It would be neat to take a two sets of PAFS that have the same reading 7.9 Bridge and 7.5 and try changing the mags in each. Many variances yes.
 

RickN

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Feb 12, 2002
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7,143
I have always wondered if the 2 1/4" magnet makes it along all the slugs, How does an 1/8" over each side change the sound.

The 2 1/4" magnets are more than enough to make it along the slugs. As soon as the batteries in my camera charge up, I'll take some photos and post them. In the highly disorganized state of my work shop and office these days, the AC adapter for both of my cameras have mysteriously gone MIA... :jaw :laugh2:

Even a 2 1/4" magnet is 'overkill' as far as length. The magnets could be 2" even and still make sufficient contact with both the slugs and the adjustable pole 'shoe'. Mapleflame hit it - it's the strength that counts, and the length has nothing to do with that. Anything beyond where the slugs or shoe actually make contact with the magnet is essentially wasted. :salude
 

RickN

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Feb 12, 2002
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As promised, here are pictures of how both the long and short magnet fit under the bobbins. As you can see, there's PLENTY of contact with the slugs and the adjustable pole shoe with either of them. It's the individual magnets' characteristics that matter, not the length.

pickup_short_magnet.jpg

pickup_long_magnet.jpg
 

kink56

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
7,672
They went to short magnets sometime in 1961. As far as I know, the short magnets were all A5s. The long magnets could be A2, A3, A4 or A5, majority being A2s and then A5s. In 61 the windings were generally more uniform, as Gibson got auto-stops on the winders. All things being the same (which would not be easy) if you replace a short magnet PAF with a long magnet, it would (in theory) be the same as a long magnet PAF. But in the real world, there are more factors to consider, than just the magnet. When new, a short A5 will still be much stronger than a long A2.
 

RickN

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Feb 12, 2002
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They went to short magnets sometime in 1961.

Short-magnet PAFs occurred well-before 1961, though they were likely less-common. I have an original short-magnet '59 double-black that I bought from an unimpeachable source. I've also examined a couple of original short-magnet zebras that came from an archtop while I was at the Dallas '06 show with Terry Mueller. I also found a short magnet in another double-black (nickel) that I was the first person to remove the cover from (at the customer's request). So earlier, original short-magnet PAFs do exist.

Interestingly, my short-magnet '59 and the two zebras were from gold-hardware guitars. Given good manufacturing practices, I can imagine that the winders were provided with instructions to produce 'x' number of pickups with gold hardware to have in stock for assembly, and they all got assembled in the same production run, and all got whatever magnets were on the assembly station at the time. If they had a brick of short magnets, then a whole run of pickups got them until they were used up.
 

S. Weiger

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Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,744
Having both short & long magnet PAF's, I'm not sure I can tell a difference. But that may be due to the fact that they are installed on 2 different guitars.
Heck, sometimes I can't tell the difference between a pair of '57 classics from 1995 and PAF's... But when you turn down the vol. pot I clearly hear a difference. But that may be due to 50's wiring / modern wiring.
 

jwalker

Les Paul Forum Sponsor
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Dec 10, 2004
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2,592
Short magnets were both A5 and A2 although by the time you get to T-Tops they are all A5. I have five short magnets. Three are A5 two are A2. They were tested by a method suggested by a test lab here in town.

The Leesona 102 coil winder which was used to wind PAF's and early Pat. sticker pickups did in fact have auto stop counters. But they run on a fiber gear and are prone to break downs. The work around to fixing the counters is to time the wind. That is one reason for the random nature of PAF resistances.
 

plaintop60

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Nov 20, 2006
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2,210
That's a tough question.
Long= 2 1/2
Short=2 1/4
I have always wondered if the 2 1/4" magnet makes it along all the slugs, How does an 1/8" over each side change the sound.

I have never heard the difference.

I can't see how it would affect the magmentis field enough to be audible, but who knows? Certainly the amount of charge and/or the alloy composition affects the tone.
 

VonPrikler

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Feb 1, 2011
Messages
516
Sorry to resurrect such an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone had a side-view photo of a long magnet paf still installed in the pickup. So, a photo from the angle of the end of the bobbins, looking directly at the side edge of the magnet. Thanks!
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
Don't have any shots that I can do today, but the old magnets from the `50's were slightly thicker than what's used today (except by ThoBak).
 
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