Henk
New member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2009
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- 836
My GOD thats some nice furniture!:applaude
As a sidenote i'd like to add that ive not seen a particle board backpanel from the early 70s yet. But i think ive read somewhere that some checkerboard models had them, ill try and find the site again where all the specs from marshall cabs were described.
Henk, I've had a number of 1971 basketweave cabs with particle board backs and it's fairly common.
Henk, thanks for posting the cabinet info. Seems to me plywood back basket weave or clone will be the way to go on the cabinet.
As for speakers, hmm....Kerry likes 30w, Henk likes 25w, the only ones I tried were 20 and I liked them. I spent some time on the Scumback site reading over the general speaker characteristics. As some have said, it would be great to try a few different versions....failing that maybe I can just throw a hail mary and put 2x20, 1x25 and 1x30 in whatever cab I wind up with!
Anyway thanks for your thoughts. One last curveball question, how much difference does that sonically opaque pinstripe or EC repro grille cloth make? It must somehaow be a factor. Kerry, it looks like all of yours have the pinstripe.
I recently played through a vintage Marshall cab with original 20W Greenbacks...the thing killed, smooth buttery breakup and feedback on demand.
What is the age of the cab you played thru? Pinstripe or basketweave?
Not all vintage 20w G12M Greenbacks are the same. The first version released in '66 had a paper voice coil and H1777 cone. These are extremely rare today, as Celestion quickly dropped the PVC construction and changed the cone. Thus, by early '68, the 20w G12M had a copper (?) voice coil and had moved to a Pulsonic 102 003 cone. These later units are essentially identical to the '68-'71 25w versions, albeit with a 20w sticker on the cover.
So, depending on the age of the cab you tried (and assuming the speakers are original to it), its entirely possible the "20w" Greenback sound you're chasing might actually be closer to the "25w" Greenback tone....
I have one of Jim Seavall's cabinets (and another PVC equipped cab in transit) - they are terrific. In comparison with my '60s stuff? A variation on *tasty*. Highly recommended.
I've heard 'em loaded with those crappy (truly horrible) Celestion Heritage speakers and even then the cabs were able to overcome the speakers.
Crusade era Bluesbreakers and Fresh Cream is what I'm after with this quest. I've got a Swanson Bluesbreaker 2x12 cab with Scumback Alnicos for the Beano side of it.
What is the age of the cab you played thru? Pinstripe or basketweave?
Not all vintage 20w G12M Greenbacks are the same. The first 20w version released in '66 had an untreated white paper voice coil former and H1777 cone. These are extremely rare today, as the untreated PVC former could easily overheat and blow the speaker. Thus, Celestion switched to a heat-treated brown paper voice coil former sometime in '67. They also dropped the H1777 cone and switched to a Pulsonic 102 003 cone at about the same time. For reference, click here and scroll down for pics of the untreated white vs. heat-treated brown PVC formers:
http://www.merrenaudio.com/speaker_repair
These later Pulsonic-coned "20w" speakers are essentially identical to the '68-'71 25w versions, albeit with a 20w sticker on the cover. In fact, for a short time in mid-'68, Celestion even affixed small "25" stickers over the "20" text to use up their existing labels!
So, depending on the age of the cab you tried (and assuming the speakers are original to it), its entirely possible the "20w" Greenback sound you're chasing might actually be closer to the "25w" Greenback tone....
Fresh Cream was recorded in fall '66, so my guess is that Clapton's cabs at the time were loaded with "first-version" G12M 20w speakers (untreated white PVC formers and H1777 cones). There is some debate that his cabs may have been loaded with heavy-magnet G12H 25w speakers, but no pics have surfaced from '66 showing the "100" logos on his first 4x12 cabs. He seems to have gotten his first "100" logo stack in early '67, well after Fresh Cream.
Crusade was recorded in July of '67, but the earliest pic I've seen of Taylor with the Bluesbreakers is from the August '67 Windsor festival, where he is using his strap-handled script-logo pinstripe slant cab. Did he use this cab for the album? Hard to say for sure...when did he actually acquire the cab? He joined the band in June, but did he own the cab prior to this? That cab could only be a '66 or early '67...so it seems likely that it was loaded with "first version" G12M 20w speakers (untreated white PVC formers and H1777 cones). My best guess....
Here is Taylor at a gig in 1968.
I wonder if this cab had the 20W speakers?
Th is all starting to make a little sense. Generally I personally like a "round" sound. I don't mind that Scumbacks sound a little "dark". My JTM doesn't have a bright cap and there is always enough treble out of the bridge pickup of a Les Paul. We'll see if I still like the 20W option when I've had a 25w experience....
bern1 - my existing Scumback cab is the slant version and is equipped with Heritage Greenbacks. The "in transit" cab is also the slant version and is equipped with four M75-PVC 20 watt speakers. I suspect that this cabinet, with my 1970 50 watt, will yield some nice tone. I am sure that you will agree that "tone" is a function of many inputs - the most important of which is the person holding the guitar. Anyway, these things are meant to be played *loud* and some of the nuance that the YouTube tone gurus talk about gets kinda lost in the ruckus
Ok E-Rock, I talked to my friend with the Marshall cabinets. The cabinet I played through with the 20W greenbacks was a basketweave from 1967. He also has a couple of checkerboard cabs with the 25W speakers. I'm going up there in the next couple of weeks to check them out. I'll bring my kit Metro 45 and check the difference out! I don't know if he any 30 W. Is black back 30w? If so he may have a cab with those as well.