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'Mapleflame Mod" - I HATE MYSELF!!!

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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10,030
I'd say just get a matching set of thumbwheels, cover up the little bit of cosmetic damage, and leave it as-is :jim
 

wild.joz

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Mar 19, 2008
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1,934
I'd say just get a matching set of thumbwheels, cover up the little bit of cosmetic damage, and leave it as-is :jim

Exactly my plan! WTF with those new Gibson thumbwheels? They look like the pokerchip nut... :rolleyes:
 

J.D.

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May 24, 2006
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LOL I like the pre-2009 thumbwheels myself :jim
 

tdarian

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Jun 25, 2008
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That looks like you would really have to do a purposefully close inspection to see any collateral damage anyway...not bad at all!
 

8ohms

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Aug 31, 2003
Messages
173
Glad to see you got her fixed up with minimal damage.

I just installed 2" stainless post's on my 2011 R9. It is a light guitar very open and vocal acoustically. The mod made a substantial positive improvement. Same case on my 2004 HM gold top. I wouldn't say either guitar became overly bright in tone, perhaps more crisp and percussive with added sustain. I switched back to 2" brass just to compare, but the results were less than stellar. I'm sold on steel post's. Don't care that it's not original material, it's not something you can visually see. There's an obvious lesson shared here and I suggest anyone who tries it, work slow and methodical until the post's are removed.
 

wild.joz

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Congrats! Must have felt great finally getting it out of there!

you bet! It was almost orgasmic!

That looks like you would really have to do a purposefully close inspection to see any collateral damage anyway...not bad at all!

It is totally invisible, unless you unscrew the thumbwheels obviously... Tone-wise, I hear no real change. Maybe a tad louder but again, it's been a while I didn't play that guitar, so my memory could be biased...

Glad to see you got her fixed up with minimal damage.

I just installed 2" stainless post's on my 2011 R9. It is a light guitar very open and vocal acoustically. The mod made a substantial positive improvement. Same case on my 2004 HM gold top. I wouldn't say either guitar became overly bright in tone, perhaps more crisp and percussive with added sustain. I switched back to 2" brass just to compare, but the results were less than stellar. I'm sold on steel post's. Don't care that it's not original material, it's not something you can visually see. There's an obvious lesson shared here and I suggest anyone who tries it, work slow and methodical until the post's are removed.

removed or fully inserted... TAP the damn hole before screwing the post (brass or steel) in. Properly tapped (sp?), with some force, I could screw the posts back in with my fingers alone.
 

Jurius

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Sep 2, 2007
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1,399
Great thread. Lots of valuable info here. I can imagine how great it felt watching that post back out.

Kudos to all, esp PineFD for going above and beyond the call.
 

fuzzyguitars

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Jul 19, 2001
Messages
7
when i did my mod with 2 inch brass posts, i used soap to lube the post.

when it started to get more resistance, i backed the whole thing out and reapplied more of the soap and put some of the soap dust into the hole.

worked very well.

go slow.
and by all means tap down at least one inch.

i feel that it is a worthwhile mod.

the guitar definitely sustains better and i can really feel the vibrations all the way up the neck much more.

it tickles my hands!
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
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14,537
Why I hate myself is because the post went in about 1 1/2 inch, but my fucking brain though "one extra turn couldn't hurt" (in french we say something like "better is the enemy of good"). Sure enough, without a warning, the damned post snapped right off, flush with the top of the guitar. Leaving behing just under one millimeter of post exposed, impossible to grab with a plier (even the small ones).

OMG!! I must have a French Brain too!! Just the kind of thing I would do.

If you find you need taps or anything that is hard to find in the Land of Wine and Song, email me and I'll see you get it.
 

wild.joz

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OMG!! I must have a French Brain too!! Just the kind of thing I would do.

If you find you need taps or anything that is hard to find in the Land of Wine and Song, email me and I'll see you get it.

Thanks Big Al, I really appreciate your offer. Thanks to Pinefd, I got it sorted out and I will forever be grateful.
Dunno if it's because I'm French, maybe it's the wine, but I still don't know what went through my mind that day...

Anyway, the guitar is rocking like it never happened, and I learned a lesson.

Again, thanks for your offer :)
 

Minibucker

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Jan 12, 2003
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6,372
I just ordered some nickel-plated 6-32 rods. Man, am I glad this thread came up. First thing I'm going to do after drilling the holes is to use some waxed hardened 6-32 machine screws to help tap the holes more, then work it a bit before inserting the brass ones.
 

Black58

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Oct 28, 2005
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10,139
I just ordered some nickel-plated 6-32 rods. Man, am I glad this thread came up. First thing I'm going to do after drilling the holes is to use some waxed hardened 6-32 machine screws to help tap the holes more, then work it a bit before inserting the brass ones.

I love NY humor.
Reminds me to fix that exhaust leak into the interior of my car.
 

Minibucker

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Jan 12, 2003
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Serious...I'm going to try long brass screw posts, but man it seems they are brittle. This thread should be a sticky.
 

Minibucker

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Y'know, after posting a picture of thumbwheels I realize that brass screws snapping off shouldn't be a big surprise....because ever since I did the mod on a few guitars I noticed that whatever 6-32 screws that you get be they steel or brass, they are a tighter fit in thumbwheels. I.e. there isn't as much wobble/lean as there is with the stock posts, meaning that the threading on the screws is more substantial for a tighter tolerance with the wheels. That might be a major part of the perceived improvement of vibration transfer along with seating deeper in the body...the metal-to-metal wheel/post contact being greater.

But if the screws are that much tighter in something like the wheels that had some play, imagine the wood in which there was no wobble or play with 'less substantial' threading of the stock posts. No wonder some softer metals are snapping off, since the wood's threading is for the less 'girthy' stock posts. Probably makes it even more important to at least work the new hole with a strong screw and prep for the new threading or even tap it out more....especially for brass.
 

tdarian

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Jun 25, 2008
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3,575
I thought the effect of the progressive change in Thumbwheels from stock steel to RetroSpec brass to the Philly Luther brass ones was very audible, and that was sticking with the stock non-magnetic so presumably brass bridge posts.

Interesting concept MiniB regarding replacement posts providing closer tolerances to the wheels and how that may effect tone. Regarding the thicker screws and the breakage risk, I'm reminded of the old adage "Long, short, thick or thin...vaseline will get'er in!

I'd still need a compelling reason to be pulling posts, like if I wanted to "clarify" a guitar by going from brass to steel, since nobody to my knowledge is really claiming a definite improvement by going to longer posts of the same material. Unless someone comes forward with reports of breathtaking results I'll stick with the stock posts.

Has anyone heard an improvement in tone by going to longer and deeper ABR-1 posts of the same material?
 

Minibucker

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Jan 12, 2003
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I thought the effect of the progressive change in Thumbwheels from stock steel to RetroSpec brass to the Philly Luther brass ones was very audible, and that was sticking with the stock non-magnetic so presumably brass bridge posts.

Interesting concept MiniB regarding replacement posts providing closer tolerances to the wheels and how that may effect tone. Regarding the thicker screws and the breakage risk, I'm reminded of the old adage "Long, short, thick or thin...vaseline will get'er in!

I'd still need a compelling reason to be pulling posts, like if I wanted to "clarify" a guitar by going from brass to steel, since nobody to my knowledge is really claiming a definite improvement by going to longer posts of the same material. Unless someone comes forward with reports of breathtaking results I'll stick with the stock posts.

Has anyone heard an improvement in tone by going to longer and deeper ABR-1 posts of the same material?

Oh, I would absolutely say that if there's a way to be happy with stock posts, then one should be good with it. If they're not bent or the bridge doesn't sit too high so that there's very little post inside, etc. I'm actually quite happy now with my stock posts/wheels and combination of Callaham bridge and 300k pots...pretty warm all around and I can get brighter with steel wheels and tailpiece studs if I want. I have done stainless long screws before and wasn't thrilled about the extra 'metallic' quality it imparted. My only thing is that it tilts back some so I might put in posts that extend up a bit more to the top of the bridge holes to leverage that better, and not be as concerned about going a full 1.75" in or what have you. Just 1" down and a bit more than the .5" extending out will be fine for me, so hopefully I won't have to try and get them as deep in as others seem to be trying to.

If you look at the way the bridge is now, it may look like it the posts are bent 'back'/towards the tailpiece, but the posts are actually straight and perpendicular to the top surface...it's the tolerances between the thumbwheels and posts, as well as the post tops ending down in bridge holes that make it tilt back on this one (sometimes tilts forward on others' guitars). And my bridge isn't really that high either. Obviously, some tolerances had to be there to allow for differing heights on the bass and treble side, but I think it's a bit too much. That's why I want to get a little more height on the posts more flush with the top of the bridge to help it not tilt as much, along with tighter thumbwheels and still keeping a good amount in the wood.

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As I mentioned I didn't ultimately like the sonic qualities of the stainless screws I used on other guitars, but in both cases that I tried they did help resist the tilting. That's why I'm getting nickel-plated brass ones for this.


But I guess I will actually be going a bit deeper with the same material (nickel plated brass threaded) and report back.
 
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