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Making the Gibson Les Paul Custom Shop 2021 even better!!

Arnold M.

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
296
That will never happen because of EPA. They are regulating the paint industry and how much Volatile Organic Compounds "VOC" they can put into a gallon of lacquer. That dramatically effects the way the product preforms. The manufactures know how to make the good old stuff, they are not allowed to.

it's funny how Historic Makeovers can legally, ( I assume,) spray their special "correct" lacquer and Gibson can't ?? I thought EPA LAWS were enacted on a Federal Level ??? I think Gibson simply doesn't want to be bothered ...
 

Wizard1183

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
781
it's funny how Historic Makeovers can legally, ( I assume,) spray their special "correct" lacquer and Gibson can't ?? I thought EPA LAWS were enacted on a Federal Level ??? I think Gibson simply doesn't want to be bothered ...

There’s laws but they COULD use pure nitro. Fact is it takes about a month to cure. Can’t produce that many guitars if your curing them a month. So induce polyurethane (plasticizers) to it so the curing time is vastly diminished and you spit out more guitars.
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
That will never happen because of EPA. They are regulating the paint industry and how much Volatile Organic Compounds "VOC" they can put into a gallon of lacquer. That dramatically effects the way the product preforms. The manufactures know how to make the good old stuff, they are not allowed to.

I suspect that Gibson, Inc. has obtained a Clean Air Act (CAA) air emission permit issued by the Tennessee Dept. of Environmental Quality .....which sets upper limits on the amount of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), particulates, and other air pollutants Gibson may release to the atmosphere in a given period.

To achieve environmental compliance, regulated industries like Gibson, Inc. often must equip their plants with appropriate air pollution control devices and systems. Owner/Operators of large volume spray paint facilities, like you might find at Gibson, will normally install a "water curtain" control device in tandem with the plant's industrial exhaust ventilation system. Water curtain control systems are capable of capturing up to 99% of fugitive VOCs generated from spray painting guitars.

.....Regulated facilities simply CAN NOT discharge air pollutants to the atmosphere in excess of the permit's limits. :hmm

For example, consider a spray paint facility that is issued an air permit that limits VOC emissions to one ton per quarter. The owner/operator will be subject to enforcement action, including fines and penalties, if this amount is exceeded. :dude:
 

Wizard1183

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
781
I suspect that Gibson, Inc. has obtained a Clean Air Act (CAA) air emission permit issued by the Tennessee Dept. of Environmental Quality .....which sets upper limits on the amount of volatile organic compounds (VOCs), particulates, and other air pollutants Gibson may release to the atmosphere in a given period.

To achieve environmental compliance, regulated industries like Gibson, Inc. often must equip their plants with appropriate air pollution control devices and systems. Owner/Operators of large volume spray paint facilities, like you might find at Gibson, will normally install a "water curtain" control device in tandem with the plant's industrial exhaust ventilation system. Water curtain control systems are capable of capturing up to 99% of fugitive VOCs generated from spray painting guitars.

.....Regulated facilities simply CAN NOT discharge air pollutants to the atmosphere in excess of the permit's limits. :hmm

For example, consider a spray paint facility that is issued an air permit that limits VOC emissions to one ton per quarter. The owner/operator will be subject to enforcement action, including fines and penalties, if this amount is exceeded. :dude:
That’s where you are possible wrong. Do we know for a fact they cannot buy credits from a smaller facility? Ex: oil refineries and chem plants have carbon credits. They’ll get fined if surpassed. However they can buy them from a smaller outfit so they can put out more.

Funny how Environmental BS is just about money and NOT the environment.

So perhaps Gibson can buy credits to throw out more VOCs into the air without worry? If they’re not making profit? They should shut down. They should be lining pockets of DEQ so they can do what they wish...
 

tonar8353

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
490
Weather the end user buys credits or not does not change the fact that the lacquer manufacture has to abide by the VOC limits that are placed on them by their individual Air Quality Management district. I have sprayed the old school high VOC lacquer all the way down to the 280 VOC L.A. Air Quality Management crap which has to be thinned with so much lacquer retarder to get it to flow out you can barely get it to cure. You are not going to get old school lacquers unless you live in a state or country that has low VOC regulations or can make your own which would be hard because the materials are federally regulated. They get a little sensitive about where gun cotton is getting used.
 

Morgan24

Active member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
138
I really think the way they glue the neck to the body is a big mistake. They put the fretboard on the neck before they glue it to the body making it impossible to see if the neck fits tightly and flat. On the picture above the fretboard have very little contact with neckjoint which result in bad sustain paying high on the fretboard. That is not acceptable!!
 

marshall1987

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
3,278
That’s where you are possible wrong. Do we know for a fact they cannot buy credits from a smaller facility? Ex: oil refineries and chem plants have carbon credits. They’ll get fined if surpassed. However they can buy them from a smaller outfit so they can put out more.

Funny how Environmental BS is just about money and NOT the environment.

So perhaps Gibson can buy credits to throw out more VOCs into the air without worry? If they’re not making profit? They should shut down. They should be lining pockets of DEQ so they can do what they wish...

Crikey mate....... throwing out crap and hoping it will stick? Don't waste my time....:laugh2:
 

Mr. Legit

Active member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
112
Any good advice on how to make the newest Les Paul even better? One thing that could be done by anyone or the Gibson custom shop is changing the ABR-1 bridge and saddles to the right specs. The saddles on the original is a lot flatter and the angle is very low at the peak compared to what the custom shop use today. This should be a cheap change for both the custom shop and others to get this correct! The same is true about the ABR-1 post and thumbweel. I dont know if the custom shop is using brass now or if they still use steel? The original ABR-1 from the late 50`s goes between 500-1000$ due to this problem. I cant believe the custom shop make this kind of mistake. Listen to this clip, the difference is unbelievable!!

Saddles Vs Bridge - Which is more important for Original Burst Les Paul Tone? - YouTube

I am going to have my first prototype, a true vintage correct zinc alloy ABR1 bridge base made in a couple weeks. They will be scanning two of my originals. Stay tuned.
 
Last edited:

Bulwark

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2019
Messages
52
I am going to have my first prototype, a true vintage correct zinc alloy ABR1 bridge base made in a couple weeks. They will be scanning two of my originals. Stay tuned.

Assuming the results pass the sniff test, how much would one of these set a fella back? Also assuming you’d be willing to have additionals made.
 

Mr. Legit

Active member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
112
I don't know yet, I am extremely OCD about this. My goal is exact, no "improvements" or this is bust. I am only interested in the base for now, as decent brass saddles and thumbwheels are readily available. Of course the only thing I can't get done is the Gibson logo on the bottom, but my goal is to surpass all current and previous reproductions.
 

Morgan24

Active member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Messages
138
I don't know yet, I am extremely OCD about this. My goal is exact, no "improvements" or this is bust. I am only interested in the base for now, as decent brass saddles and thumbwheels are readily available. Of course the only thing I can't get done is the Gibson logo on the bottom, but my goal is to surpass all current and previous reproductions.

Where can you get the "decent brass saddles and thumbwheel"? Is it difficult/ risky to change the thumbwheel due to the fact that it is screwed directly into the wood?
 

Mr. Legit

Active member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
112
Where can you get the "decent brass saddles and thumbwheel"? Is it difficult/ risky to change the thumbwheel due to the fact that it is screwed directly into the wood?

The post is screwed directly into the wood, not the thumbwheels. Philadelphia Luthier Tools makes decent looking ones for extremely cheap. The Area59 ones from CrazyParts are not even remotely close and cost more than triple.

https://www.philadelphialuthiertool...tage-thin-thumbwheels-fits-usa-gibson-nickel/

I don't know why Gibson has not decided to just change to the more vintage correct thinner and larger in diameter thumbwheels. This would cost them pennies to do. Maybe Gibson 2021 will do this.
 

Wizard1183

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
781
The post is screwed directly into the wood, not the thumbwheels. Philadelphia Luthier Tools makes decent looking ones for extremely cheap. The Area59 ones from CrazyParts are not even remotely close and cost more than triple.

https://www.philadelphialuthiertool...tage-thin-thumbwheels-fits-usa-gibson-nickel/

I don't know why Gibson has not decided to just change to the more vintage correct thinner and larger in diameter thumbwheels. This would cost them pennies to do. Maybe Gibson 2021 will do this.

Tone is in the bone lol
 

(urlym@ple

Active member
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
178
I don't know yet, I am extremely OCD about this. My goal is exact, no "improvements" or this is bust. I am only interested in the base for now, as decent brass saddles and thumbwheels are readily available. Of course the only thing I can't get done is the Gibson logo on the bottom, but my goal is to surpass all current and previous reproductions.
Drop me a pm when it’s ready, I’d love to see the finish product and the cost ? Thanks
 

Todd Louis

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
14,526
WOW alot of newbies here .....
Well Gibson has taken steps forward and then backward on purpose so that they can tell you they made a change they didn't. They have in recent years rebranded claiming a huge change that was not true. The guitars are basicly the same since 2003 some minor construction changes. since then it has mainly been parts that needed fixing.
But they have a few things they could do better
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
A lot of people have never held a mid 90's Historic , Even with wrong top carve , wrong glue ,wrong plastic, truss rod go get guitars miss my 90's stuff , my 98 Historic Firebird V is everything my 2016 Historic 111 is , GO figure ?
 

eis

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Messages
11
IMO so far as by the end of 2020 the silhouette -I mean the body shape, and the top carve are still far from authentic and appearently they've been modified/improved several times but it seems they just failed to make them right again and again... and you can allways easily tell the reissues apart from the real ones no matter how you disguise them with period correct plastic parts etc..
 
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