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Hey it's Mat from Gibson Product Development - AMA

marshall2553

New member
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
27
Hi friend, I hope all is well with you.
I'm a fan of Gibsons guitars, I've owned a lot and I currently own two gibson custom shop M2M guitars.
Last year I bought a 1959 Gibson M2M and I am very disappointed with the new Costa Rica-made case.
It is heavier, protects less and does not match such an expensive instrument and my M2M does not have the switch key and headstock protectors.
I would like to purchase or receive the protectors.
If you can help me I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks again !
A Jr.



*The switch key is ruining the case.
That is a gorgeous LP!
 

citson

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
47
Hey Mat! Not sure if it has been asked (I don't think so), or if you're involved in amps at all, but any chance we'll see any RIs of Gibson amps from Mesa?

And a follow-up Q, how about an EB-1 reissue? That's my dream bass but originals are scarce, expensive, and mostly collectors grade. I wanna play it!

Thanks again for doing this, and kudos to everyone at Gibson for the great work you're all doing!
 

TM1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
An EB-1 with the 32K d.c. pickup? I do have a couple of tricks for that to clean it up..
 

madrivermoco

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Joined
Sep 26, 2021
Messages
35
Thank you! This is a career highlight for sure. But more importantly it helps tell Ted's story and shine a light on his legacy of innovation and design.
That’s what I liked. You barely even mention the Guitar! (Which is beautiful btw…really beautiful and in that Paul Bigsby vein that’s just my wheelhouse) Legit, there are five words about the guitar. I loved that. Forced me to look closely. So cool. Keep going!
 

citson

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
47
Thank you! This is a career highlight for sure. But more importantly it helps tell Ted's story and shine a light on his legacy of innovation and design.
I can't wait to see what else shows up on the Archive Collection. Congrats on such achievement, Mat!

Historical question now that we're at it. Were there many guitar designs that never made it to production? I'm guessing you're not doing them all for the archive collection, but wondering how common that was.
 

matkoehler

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
482
Hey Mat! Not sure if it has been asked (I don't think so), or if you're involved in amps at all, but any chance we'll see any RIs of Gibson amps from Mesa?

And a follow-up Q, how about an EB-1 reissue? That's my dream bass but originals are scarce, expensive, and mostly collectors grade. I wanna play it!

Thanks again for doing this, and kudos to everyone at Gibson for the great work you're all doing!
There is a very good chance. :) And they will be very true to the originals in look and sound, with some conscientious updates internally.

EB-1 reissue is a good call! Gibson actually "reissued" these in the late 1960s, and we still have leftover body blanks from that time. Anyway I will add this to the ideas list...thanks!
 

matkoehler

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
482
I can't wait to see what else shows up on the Archive Collection. Congrats on such achievement, Mat!

Historical question now that we're at it. Were there many guitar designs that never made it to production? I'm guessing you're not doing them all for the archive collection, but wondering how common that was.
Several hundred concepts were created from the 1940s-1970s and most did not make it to production, or at least not looking like the concept. But only a handful of fully blueprinted designs were not produced for various reasons.
 

axeman565758

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Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
1,204
There is a very good chance. :) And they will be very true to the originals in look and sound, with some conscientious updates internally.

EB-1 reissue is a good call! Gibson actually "reissued" these in the late 1960s, and we still have leftover body blanks from that time. Anyway I will add this to the ideas list...thanks!
Yeah, I 2nd that EB-1 request.
But please, no Ripper reissues....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :LOL:
 

jclasby9599

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Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
6
Hi Matt - Great thread! Thanks for doing this! I'm excited about the Archives Collection but the release of the Theodore didn't talk too much about the concept itself. Are there more AC guitars to come? Should we expect a couple per year or is this going to be a rare event?
 

madrivermoco

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2021
Messages
35
Hi Matt - Great thread! Thanks for doing this! I'm excited about the Archives Collection but the release of the Theodore didn't talk too much about the concept itself. Are there more AC guitars to come? Should we expect a couple per year or is this going to be a rare event?
21F3DB16-F902-4A15-BA97-1029D4B9D5F9.jpeg
 

matkoehler

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
482
The Theodore release and sales have exceeded all my expectations...also all the awesome content on Youtube and discussions on forums and social media. A lot of incorrect information and easily disproved speculation out there, so I thought I'd try to clear some things up here if anyone cares! A lot of thought went into the specs and the various points of differentiation from the drawing.

Claim: Ted actually intended for this guitar design to have mini humbuckers or Epi NY pickups.

Truth: This drawing was made over a month before Orphie even contacted Ted about Epiphone, so Ted was definitely not thinking about using their pickups. Remember, Gibson was interested in acquiring Epiphone's acoustic upright bass business so that they wouldn't have to spend time and money designing and tooling and fixturing. By Fall of '57, a $20K deal was in place for what Ted thought was ONLY the acoustic bass part of the business. When he caught wind that Orphie accepted that amount for the entire Epiphone business, he immediately scrambled to get the deal done ASAP and bring in all the best minds at Gibson to figure out the most effective way to leverage what they bought -- from the various parts to the whitewood neck blanks. But Ted still thought only the bass business was viable, which led to the prominent mention of the future of upright bass instruments in Gibson's official announcement of having purchased Epiphone. Gibson salespeople saw a lot more potential, however, and they suggested a separate Epiphone product line for all the stores that were not allowed to carry Gibson because of proximity to existing Gibson dealers. The Epiphone product meetings began in January 1958 and wrapped the following month with the first Epiphone Kalamazoo price list (before they had formally prototyped anything), with all the electrics utilizing the Epi NY pickups. It wasn't until very late 1959 that the idea of the mini humbucker entered the conversation, and it was because of necessity -- not something that Ted or Seth had imagined previously. They were running out of the Epi NY pickups without a way to make more, but they didn't want to use Gibson humbuckers in order to have adequate separation between the Epi and Gibson product lines, and it just so happened to use the same route as a P90. The Seth Lover mini hum blueprints date to early 1960. So the timing does not match up at all with the mini humbucker, nor was it ever intended to be used in a Gibson product anyway. Personally, I think Ted was just quickly sketching an idea with this and not formally considering features anyway...hence the many questions about specs and notes he had. It is possible he had intended them to be full sized humbuckers, but at the time, a wraptail was only in use on P90 guitars.

Claim: The center strip means that this model was meant to be a neck-through design.

Truth: Gibson was very reluctantly dragged into the neck-through world at the insistence of Ray Dietrich when he submitted his concept design portfolio in 1962. It necessitated larger pieces of wood, completely unique and new construction methods, and the slowest cycle times of any core model guitar being built at the time. It was for these reasons that Gibson abandoned the original neck through models just over a year after releasing them (in favor of the set-neck, mahogany only Non-Reverse Firebird & Thunderbird. Until 1962, no neck-through concepts existed within Gibson nor was there any indication that there were being considered.

Claim: This model did not go to production because Gibson did not like it.

Truth: I believe the reason this specific drawing did not go to production is because 1) it was just one of many different concepts being considered at the time and 2) taking the drawing literally, its features could not be easily replicated by Gibson at the time. From the switch placement(s) that would require lots of gun drilling to the raised archtop-style pickguard on a flat surface (Gibson never did this on anything) to the extremely-difficult-to-manufacture heavy round-over radius that flattens out. It shows to me that while this was a pure concept from Ted, it was not polished by any means. Maybe his engineering team didn't "like" it, but Ted obviously did or he wouldn't have signed it. Furthermore, after going through R&D it is normal for these concepts to evolved naturally...and I believe this evolved into both the Les Paul Special Double Cut (body) and the Explorer (neck).

Claim: Alder was specified because it was cheap at the time.

Truth: Alder and Poplar were being considered by Gibson for new models simply because they were lighter in color than mahogany and lighter weight than maple -- the sales team had recommended using lighter colors, which is what prompted the exploration. The Moderne concept drawing specifies Poplar, as do the 1958 Epiphone product lineup notes for what became the Coronet and Crestwood. But I believe when Gibson tested their already-on-hand supply of Korina in 1958, they were pleased with its lighter appearance...this is why it was chosen for the Flying V and Explorer.

Claim: Ted was influenced by Rickenbacker's 1956 doublecut solid body in making this design.

Truth: It is very unlikely that Ted had seen one of these in the wild...more likely that he would be trying to make a double cut to compete with the Strat. But regardless, his 1957 drawing actually shares a lot in common with an earlier Gibson concept art piece -- a doublecut ACOUSTIC with a scimitar headstock drawn in November 1955...very far out. Photos of this and others from that time are in Walter Carter's 100 Years of Gibson book, page 187. I believe Ted dusted off those modern acoustic concepts and tried to incorporate some the features into a solid body electric.

What questions do you have for me? What do you think of the spec choices we made, ultimately?
 

Torshalla

Active member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
196
The Theodore release and sales have exceeded all my expectations...also all the awesome content on Youtube and discussions on forums and social media. A lot of incorrect information and easily disproved speculation out there, so I thought I'd try to clear some things up here if anyone cares! A lot of thought went into the specs and the various points of differentiation from the drawing.

Claim: Ted actually intended for this guitar design to have mini humbuckers or Epi NY pickups.

Truth: This drawing was made over a month before Orphie even contacted Ted about Epiphone, so Ted was definitely not thinking about using their pickups. Remember, Gibson was interested in acquiring Epiphone's acoustic upright bass business so that they wouldn't have to spend time and money designing and tooling and fixturing. By Fall of '57, a $20K deal was in place for what Ted thought was ONLY the acoustic bass part of the business. When he caught wind that Orphie accepted that amount for the entire Epiphone business, he immediately scrambled to get the deal done ASAP and bring in all the best minds at Gibson to figure out the most effective way to leverage what they bought -- from the various parts to the whitewood neck blanks. But Ted still thought only the bass business was viable, which led to the prominent mention of the future of upright bass instruments in Gibson's official announcement of having purchased Epiphone. Gibson salespeople saw a lot more potential, however, and they suggested a separate Epiphone product line for all the stores that were not allowed to carry Gibson because of proximity to existing Gibson dealers. The Epiphone product meetings began in January 1958 and wrapped the following month with the first Epiphone Kalamazoo price list (before they had formally prototyped anything), with all the electrics utilizing the Epi NY pickups. It wasn't until very late 1959 that the idea of the mini humbucker entered the conversation, and it was because of necessity -- not something that Ted or Seth had imagined previously. They were running out of the Epi NY pickups without a way to make more, but they didn't want to use Gibson humbuckers in order to have adequate separation between the Epi and Gibson product lines, and it just so happened to use the same route as a P90. The Seth Lover mini hum blueprints date to early 1960. So the timing does not match up at all with the mini humbucker, nor was it ever intended to be used in a Gibson product anyway. Personally, I think Ted was just quickly sketching an idea with this and not formally considering features anyway...hence the many questions about specs and notes he had. It is possible he had intended them to be full sized humbuckers, but at the time, a wraptail was only in use on P90 guitars.

Claim: The center strip means that this model was meant to be a neck-through design.

Truth: Gibson was very reluctantly dragged into the neck-through world at the insistence of Ray Dietrich when he submitted his concept design portfolio in 1962. It necessitated larger pieces of wood, completely unique and new construction methods, and the slowest cycle times of any core model guitar being built at the time. It was for these reasons that Gibson abandoned the original neck through models just over a year after releasing them (in favor of the set-neck, mahogany only Non-Reverse Firebird & Thunderbird. Until 1962, no neck-through concepts existed within Gibson nor was there any indication that there were being considered.

Claim: This model did not go to production because Gibson did not like it.

Truth: I believe the reason this specific drawing did not go to production is because 1) it was just one of many different concepts being considered at the time and 2) taking the drawing literally, its features could not be easily replicated by Gibson at the time. From the switch placement(s) that would require lots of gun drilling to the raised archtop-style pickguard on a flat surface (Gibson never did this on anything) to the extremely-difficult-to-manufacture heavy round-over radius that flattens out. It shows to me that while this was a pure concept from Ted, it was not polished by any means. Maybe his engineering team didn't "like" it, but Ted obviously did or he wouldn't have signed it. Furthermore, after going through R&D it is normal for these concepts to evolved naturally...and I believe this evolved into both the Les Paul Special Double Cut (body) and the Explorer (neck).

Claim: Alder was specified because it was cheap at the time.

Truth: Alder and Poplar were being considered by Gibson for new models simply because they were lighter in color than mahogany and lighter weight than maple -- the sales team had recommended using lighter colors, which is what prompted the exploration. The Moderne concept drawing specifies Poplar, as do the 1958 Epiphone product lineup notes for what became the Coronet and Crestwood. But I believe when Gibson tested their already-on-hand supply of Korina in 1958, they were pleased with its lighter appearance...this is why it was chosen for the Flying V and Explorer.

Claim: Ted was influenced by Rickenbacker's 1956 doublecut solid body in making this design.

Truth: It is very unlikely that Ted had seen one of these in the wild...more likely that he would be trying to make a double cut to compete with the Strat. But regardless, his 1957 drawing actually shares a lot in common with an earlier Gibson concept art piece -- a doublecut ACOUSTIC with a scimitar headstock drawn in November 1955...very far out. Photos of this and others from that time are in Walter Carter's 100 Years of Gibson book, page 187. I believe Ted dusted off those modern acoustic concepts and tried to incorporate some the features into a solid body electric.

What questions do you have for me? What do you think of the spec choices we made, ultimately?
Thanks for taking the time to share so much background information, it is really interesting to read.
Can you share how many more archive models are in the pipe at the present and when we can expect the next one?
 

matkoehler

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Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
482
Thanks for taking the time to share so much background information, it is really interesting to read.
Can you share how many more archive models are in the pipe at the present and when we can expect the next one?
I'll just say many more, and unfortunately no I cannot share when but we want to roll these out slowly over time to let each breathe and have their time in the spotlight. Many of the concepts would be hard to manufacture and probably were not put into production originally because of that (like the Theodore), so we have our work cut out for us. Thanks for the question!
 

citson

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
47
The Theodore release and sales have exceeded all my expectations...also all the awesome content on Youtube and discussions on forums and social media. A lot of incorrect information and easily disproved speculation out there, so I thought I'd try to clear some things up here if anyone cares! A lot of thought went into the specs and the various points of differentiation from the drawing.
Thanks for the deets, Mat. And again congrats on the successful release. Any plans for USA Archive Collection models? Or will they all be CS?
 

Gregeatworld

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
9
What questions do you have for me? What do you think of the spec choices we made, ultimately?
Hi Mat,

I love the concept of the Theodore and the concept of the Archive Collection! It is a fantastic idea. I inquired about ordering a Theodore and was told they were backordered until September. Is that a true estimate for how long it will take all 318 guitars to ship from the factory? Also, will all the archive collections be extremely limited custom shop releases, or will future releases have more quantities available, or even Gibson USA versions? Thanks Mat!
 

jb_abides

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
5,274
What questions do you have for me? What do you think of the spec choices we made, ultimately?

First a comment on your 'Truth' - far more than a defense, these details are fascinating and much appreciated. Sounds like you should work on a history book or blog, or at minimum jot down your discoveries for each new investigation / release somewhere for all to see.

Comments on the guitar: I like it overall, but you know I won't be buying one because.. southpaw. :cool: Oh, and BTW, I liked the Ebony with the contrasting stripe the best, personally. Just 2 cents.

My niggling critique would be about the pick guard, it's shape but more annoying to me is the proximity to the switch. I would have it come no further than the bridge P-90 akin to a Special Double Cut. I don't mind the wedge, yet wondering if you tried another shape more like the drawing, even though the switch moved?

If these come into USA, more colors, metallic and other custom colors would be cool, FWIW.
 
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