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'67 Flying V's

lanman

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In general, they made/shipped these guitars between 1966 and 1970 in 5 batches of 35 with 111 of them shipped in and bearing a 1967 Serial Number. 15 additional were shipped in in '69 and 47 more in 1969 with the first 2 shipped in '66. The total of this lot was 175. Some shipped in 69/70 had '67 serial and others with numbers corresponding to the shipping year.

Each batch had it's own color, neck joint/shelf, serial placement, truss rod cover and a few later ones even with headstock variations. After the '67 series came the Medalion's made in 1972. They made 350 of these. It was not until 1975 that they started cranking out Flying V's with over 1800 made in 1975. This makes the '67 series and the Medalions pretty rare and collectable.

The main way to conclusively identify a '67 versus any other year is the fact that the fret board is only about 1/4 inch off the body as opposed to about 1/2 or more for any version after. This makes for a low break angle over the bridge and the characteristic slinky strings these are known for. The '67 is the only version with the short tremolo and the pickguard cut to fit this feature.
 

Cody

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The main way to conclusively identify a '67 versus any other year is the fact that the fret board is only about 1/4 inch off the body... The '67 is the only version with the short tremolo and the pickguard cut to fit this feature.
Do you mean '67 style (as in "pre-Medallion"), or the actual year - ie. does the '68 in the first pic also have the lower fretboard? All pre-Medallions have the short Vibrola, right?

Do you know how many were made with the longer truss rod cover?

Have you ever thought about doing a body-only Sparkling Burgundy refin on yours?

:salude
 

cryptozoo

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That's very odd about the Sparkling Burg/ stinger combo. While not nearly as rare as a '67 or '68 V, I did have a '68 SG Melody Maker that was Sparkling Burgandy, also sporting a natural neck and stinger. Must've been a somewhat standard compliment for that color, at the time.

34pcsj9.gif
 

lanman

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Yes, all of the 175 shipped from '66 to '70 are part of the '67 series and have the lower fret board to the body. While all of the '67 Series had the short vibrola, I have seen a couple of "in betweeners" to the Medalions. I had one with '71 pots, no volute, no "made in the USA" and an unusual case with blue lining. It had a stop tail with the taller fret board. It was a two piece body (all '67's were one piece) with a little wedge in the crotch to help hold the two pieces together. This was a feature on the Medalions, but it was not one on the '75's. I really think that there are a few of these out there.

Matter of fact, this may be one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Gib...s-/160643304477?pt=Guitar&hash=item2567164c1d

When I seen this one had a Medalion type headstock with no volute (Medalions had volutes).....I asked the seller to add a photo of the fret board at the body....which he did, and it's the taller one. Notice the Gibson logo on the Headstock....not a Medalion or '75 series characteristic. It's a refin and has the mid 70's tuners. Can't read the pots. Serial could be '69 or '72 (I think). Stamped pat #'s. It has the post '67 control cavity as all of the '67's had a crude cut-out on the side of the wire channel that looks like a mod but is not. I think this might be like my '71, an "in betweener". If I was interested in buying this one, my next question would be if it has the bigger neck....1 9/16.....but really thick like a '69. I don't think anyone is an expert or will know for sure, but I always like hunting for these question mark V's. I am extremely confident that mine was a '71 stop tail pre-medalion which is not supposed to exist. How else do you explain the lack of volute on this guitar? Pot codes would be interesting, but not conclusive.

The elongated truss rod covers...the ones with the top screw above the middle tuners....are only found on the early batch 1 '67's. I don't think anyone knows how many there actually were.

Ironically, I am going to start a new thread on picking a luthier that the forum would recommend to do a Sparkling Burgandy body refin for my '67...slighly aged. I do a before and after thread like the ones I enjoy following here.
 

lanman

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That's very odd about the Sparkling Burg/ stinger combo. While not nearly as rare as a '67 or '68 V, I did have a '68 SG Melody Maker that was Sparkling Burgandy, also sporting a natural neck and stinger. Must've been a somewhat standard compliment for that color, at the time.

34pcsj9.gif

Ya, that's bad-ass looking!
 

apossibleworld

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Oct 16, 2008
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I guess my real question is Why did they build these in '67? I always thought the idea of a "reissue" didn't even cross Gibson's mind until the '68 Les Pauls, and those were by demand of British players who wanted the guitars that their new heros were playing.
 

lanman

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The Medallions were made in 71, not 72.
Here's mine.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j78/veeman2/4-1-10045.jpg
The oddball on ebay right now, has a early 80's guard on it i think. See the round curve on the guard by the bridge? characteristic of the late 79-83 guards. Earlier guards have a much sharper corner.

Really Nice Guitar Veeman! I'd love to try one of these, never got the chance. It'd be nice if you could throw up a few photos of some of your Medallion's features for reference. I'd love to be able to check out some close-ups.

Ya, the bridge is not early 70's either. Man, I used to drive myself nuts going over all of the details of maybe this or that....a lot of time and stress. With this one being refinished, who knows what it is! The serial could be redone and this might be an 80's guitar perhaps? Nah, narrow nut width. The 80's no volutes were all 1 11/16" I think. Still is intersting.
 

johnny73

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Oct 8, 2007
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In general, they made/shipped these guitars between 1966 and 1970 in 5 batches of 35 with 111 of them shipped in and bearing a 1967 Serial Number. 15 additional were shipped in in '69 and 47 more in 1969 with the first 2 shipped in '66. The total of this lot was 175. Some shipped in 69/70 had '67 serial and others with numbers corresponding to the shipping year.

Each batch had it's own color, neck joint/shelf, serial placement, truss rod cover and a few later ones even with headstock variations. After the '67 series came the Medalion's made in 1972. They made 350 of these. It was not until 1975 that they started cranking out Flying V's with over 1800 made in 1975. This makes the '67 series and the Medalions pretty rare and collectable.

The main way to conclusively identify a '67 versus any other year is the fact that the fret board is only about 1/4 inch off the body as opposed to about 1/2 or more for any version after. This makes for a low break angle over the bridge and the characteristic slinky strings these are known for. The '67 is the only version with the short tremolo and the pickguard cut to fit this feature.

Yes, these changes are detailed in pictures in an excellent Flying V book that recently came out. The Gibson Flying V by Zachary Fjestad.

I would like to add that the current USA Flying Vs also have the fretboard just off the body like the original 67s. Other than the neck joint and some minor headstock shaping and edge conturing, the current USA 67 Flying Vs are pretty darn close to the original 67s. Of course, as stated above, the original 67s changed between production runs.
 

lanman

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Here are some pics of my Natural under the guard. It shows the original Metalic Burgandy paint color, the crude cut-out for the wire channel and an example of "the experimental aspect" of these mentioned earlier as the wood added to the control cavity to accomodate the pickguard screws was done at the factory prior to shipping. I have seen another '67 with this add-on.

IMG_4145.jpg


IMG_4144.jpg
 

Wally

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Feb 27, 2003
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Nice guitars. I am not in the know on these late '60's V's, so I went to the Gruhn/Carter book. Walter Carter had access to the Gibson logs, did he not?
Gruhn and Carter allege that this series of Flying V's were shipped in these numbers.....2 in '65, 111 in '66, 15 in '69 and 47 in '70.
SErial number 920855 has no other possibility in the '60's...it is a '68.....or a '70-'72 number. Lanman, you seem to have some experience with these guitars. IS the Gruhn/CArter book incorrect on these aspects?
I am willing to learn, but whadahey? IT is unlikely that I will ever see one of these, but it would be interesting to have some definite understanding of what is what if I do. The only pre-70's V that I have seen in my area was an original '58 that had a 1964 factory headstock repair with a '64 serial number imprinted in it....unevenly imprinted as a factory repair would have had as I understand it.
 

gr4ntc

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Feb 26, 2008
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I just found another early 70's stop tail V that sold recently on ebay. This one was just like mine only mine had no volute. This one has a small one. Huge neck and a blue lined case. They do exist!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230641477037

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking on these guitars, Its my understanding there was a batch of V`s with a small or no volute, no made in the USA stamp that were from 1975, both the ebay auctions list guitars with stamped pat No pickups that were original to the guitar, These didnt start until 1975 :wah
 

lanman

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I would consider myself an enthusiast more than an expert. I forgot more than I retained on the minor things/details that have crossed my path over the years. I have the Larry Meiners Book "Flying V" and I have the Gibson shipment totals book also by Larry Meiners. Both of these books, and all of the material I recall to have read on line show the shipping totals as I have described. Based on this only, I would have to say that the Gruhn book is wrong. But, I am certainly not the person to emphatically state anything as fact as I am certainly no George Gruhn! Logic would tell me also, that according to him, these should have been named '66 V's....no? Interestingly, on the other hand, both my Tobacco and Natural have '66 pots. I recall someone telling me, my buddy Jeff perhaps, that the majority had '66 pots as they made all of the harnesses in '66....or most of them. I am going to email Jeff and let you know what he says.

Thanks for pointing out my serial number being from '68! 30 years and it never crossed my mind to check! We all know, however that these "ranges" are not gospel....especially on a model like this one that sat around waiting to be shipped as nobody wanted them! According to the Flying V Book, my V was part of the 4th Batch (Center Serial Number / Metalic Burgandy) that was manufactured in '67 and shipped in '67, '69 and 1970. Go figure! Maybe they made it in '67, stamped it in '68 and shipped it in '69 after they fixed that control cavity error!
 

Wally

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Thanks, lanman.....it seems that there is always an exception to the rules, eh? Gruhn/Carter does note all of these guitars were only listed in 1966.
The shipping totals in "American Guitars" shows the following...
Flying V...1966-2; 1967-44, 1967 ch (cherry?)-67 for a total of 111; 1969-15;
1970-47....coincides with Gruhn/Carter.

That serial number threw me. As most of us are I am sure, I am sensitive to those serial numbers from '63 through '75. Sometimes one can't tell what in the world is going on. I tend generally to accept things when there is no conflict, though. The only conflicting year for 920855 would be 1975...and we know this guitar is not from '75. Details, details, details...

No matter....those are some nice guitars. And...I love the yellow case interiors from the '60's.
 

lanman

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I think there is a lot of wishful thinking on these guitars, Its my understanding there was a batch of V`s with a small or no volute, no made in the USA stamp that were from 1975, both the ebay auctions list guitars with stamped pat No pickups that were original to the guitar, These didnt start until 1975 :wah

Ya, but that's no fun! Even if they are pre-75 proto-types....there are some '75's with '74 numbers and pots...they are still cool to have as outside the box guitars. I doubt that they were made "in between" the '75 run.

Most of the charm of treasure hunting is hope.....and the fact that we will likely never know for sure.
 
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