fakejake
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- Sep 3, 2010
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Let me say it again: Great, great thread!
Hello, yes, now the guitar has been sold, but meanwhile I got answer from some of the major Gibson experts and from Gibson's and they confirmed Tom Murphy never even saw this guitar, and their in-house expert confirmed the cavities are wrong. Let me clarify what happened here and why I came on the forum to find some advice.@lespauls:
You seam rather good informed about vintage gear. So this is definitely not the first time, you pass by the LPF. Very concrete, but also incorrect statements about routings and cavities. Actually you even don't own the guitar, as you confirm. And here you make a cloak and dagger appearance under a name which never posted for another thread.
And then actually you are not only asking about the guitar, but also risk to damage it. You don't ask about different routings or did extensive searches, you say "The cavities though...I was like wtf once I saw this" or "to the best of my knowledge that cavity route has not been made by Gibson in the 50s" and that "your concern was to show some evidence to the seller". You already had your opinion, you want confirmation. For a guitar somebody else owns? Not one of the pictures you posted is taken by you.
Your questions are too specific for a musician, and not specific enough for a collector. Any serious collector, who would have had real interest in that guitar would have taken it to a proper inspection without risking to permanently damage it, unless not 1000% sure. Members here would have helped, to find the right guy close to you.
But like always, posts of other members here where helpful.
Hello, I've been offered this guitar by Justin Harrison, likely before you got it. Sadly the in-house experts at Gibsons and the major Gibson Experts answered to my requests (which were sent to them before searching for some advice on here), and all of them confirmed this guitar is not what it seems. Infact all the "proof" shown to you to confirm it's legitimacy is some video tape in awful resolution from the late 80s ? Well, if for you that is enough to prove it's authenticity fine, I wouldn't be that naive though, since by mid 80s fakes were already around, maybe not 100% exact but surely very well made.Hi Sir, a friend of mine told me that pictures of my guitar were on this forum, so here I am.
I'm the owner of this gold top with black parts that somebody posted asking if it's a fake.
I don't know how happened, but my guitar IS NOT FOR SALE.
It's in my house..so if someone offered this to you maybe he is lying, so please don't give him any money. Be careful my friend!
I know that It was oversprayed white at some point and then removed and back to the original paint.
It's one of the best guitar I ever played and the only one close is a 59 burst belonging to a friend of mine.
If it is a fake, please make another one like this and I will buy it right away..
Thanks for your attention and good luck!
Last think: could you remove the pictures of my guitars from this post? I appreciate a lot, thank you!
thank you so very much, it wasn't because i wanted to be "slimy" just because I knew that once I would have named him, I would have had no more answers reg. the guitar. I think that the combo here, seller, fake back history and fake restoration history, plus the fact that Gibson's in house historians and major Experts confirmed this is not a legit 50s les paul, pretty much sums it up.Justin Here-we-go-again Harrison.
Figures. Now I get it why OP was reluctant to reveal the seller's name in the first place..
That is why I passed on this one. it was "too good to be true", and you're right, sometimes the old lines are there for a reason!The old line goes if you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.
No vintage instrument retailer ever thinks in terms of being charitable with their inventory. If there's a low price there's a reason.
Anybody with a 1957 LP Special all mahogany control cavity shot?
Thank you. And I found this. Posted by Danelectro.55 Les Paul Special control cavity shot.
Someone set me straight. Should a 50's LP Special have the router jig "bite" mark on the forward edge of the control cavity? He's a pic I just shot. Guitar looked jake but the jig bite puzzled me. There isn't one there. Don't open too many of these up. Pots are centralab and date to 1952. Serial...www.lespaulforum.com
Let me see:Thank you. And I found this. Posted by Danelectro.
58 Les Paul Special Authentication request
Long Story short I purchased this guitar in 1998 as a naive 15 yr. old. I just had to have this Gibson guitar hanging from the Pawn Shop wall. The gentleman at the Pawn Shop told me it was a reworked/refinished Gibson 58 Les Paul Special. He even explained why the serial number was missing from...www.lespaulforum.com
Only missing the chew marks now. But those are not present on a Special. They are caused by the carved top of a Les Paul Standard.
The discussed cavity for reference.
Mayhap Guitar is legit.The OP stated, that there are no cavities like the one on this very GT.
However:
1. The cable channel in the control cavity is correct for an all Mahgony LP (here is another one)
2. Rounded cornes have been seen in LPs cavities (according to others who posted pics). Also that is standard on LP Specials.
3. Now the LP Standard cavity I posted above does not only have rounded corners, it also has the cable channel drilled straight through the massive piece of mahogany from the jack plate to the pickups. Like the guitar questioned. What it doesn't have is chew marks. Because they don't exist on flat top LP. They are caused by the holes for the controls on a carved top.
It was said, that these would not exist, and therefore, it was a fake. And that is just not true. Here is proof. I have no idea what Gibson did on this very day. But I am 100% convinced, that this is a 1957 LP GT all mahogany. And to put things in perspective. All I post here was found out by me. The names and places in the 70s Chicago, the pink/white powder which was in the cavities and even on the solder joints. The conclusion why it was there, that is was residues from an overspray and then find the old photos, videos of the owner playing that badly oversprayed GT as proof. in 1995 the guitar was with Tom Murphy and later photos show it as a Gold Top again. And not refinished; that is the important fact. The pictures proofed the gold was intact under the color and the color was played partly away by the time. And why not? The owner belonged to the Chicago music scene, Tom Murphy had his shop there. Anything special about that? But it was also with other Luthiers. Denny Rauen lists the owner among other celebrities as customer. Maybe he did the color removal. Who cares, does it change anything? Where is the lye? On the pics I posted form the owners tone studio in Chicago, you can see it later with two very well known dumble amps, well discussed in groups, also photographed with the guitar. I spent a considerable amount of time on that. And the more I searched, the more things fell into place. There is just no smoking gun here. It is an honest, well played guitar with a huge hole in the top, which the owner, who had its since 72, scratched in with picks and nails. This also makes sense, as that would have been harder on a marple cap. And yes probably somebody had stolen it in the 60s, scratched of the SN and sold it at Chicago Guitar Gallery where Paul Stapels again sold it to the previous owner. Those are all real places and names. I don't make them up. Give me another LP where you have such a lot of infos?
This also can't be a conversion. If it was a 60s GT or Custom, it had a marple cap. Also it's a dark back. A 50s conversion would have had P90s. The serial number was scratched off and that can be seen. Also I measured it, thinkness of body. And that measures exactly like my 56GT. If it was refinished, it would not. I posted a Black light pic together with 2 other 1957 LPs. There is nothing suspicious.
I am not a dealer. I am here for fun. I hope everybody can say that.
Thank you. And I found this. Posted by Danelectro.
58 Les Paul Special Authentication request
Long Story short I purchased this guitar in 1998 as a naive 15 yr. old. I just had to have this Gibson guitar hanging from the Pawn Shop wall. The gentleman at the Pawn Shop told me it was a reworked/refinished Gibson 58 Les Paul Special. He even explained why the serial number was missing from...www.lespaulforum.com
Only missing the chew marks now. But those are not present on a Special. They are caused by the carved top of a Les Paul Standard.
The discussed cavity for reference.
I second that. And the chew doesn't look like it was made with a router forstner bit IMO. More like done with a file or rasp.I don't understand why there would be a chew mark on the guitar in question, if there isn't any visible routing on the bottom of the cavity for the pots. And it certainly looks like that chew mark was added after the staining was done. IMO