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1958 Goldtop

JJ Blair

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Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,460
This is the second goldtop posted in a month with " goopy " routes.

I asked a question and got no response, so I'll ask again;

Did Gibson ever goof up a paintjob, and reshoot it ?

Are goopy routes really that rare ?

Or does it always mean a refin ?

I have seen a couple gold tops that have indicated that two or three layers of gold were shot, when you saw the wear. I don't consider this route goopy. It's just thick, and I personally don't think it's that unusual. That other one, that looked goopy, I have no idea.
 
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T.Allen

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Sep 11, 2014
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The multi layer finish is normal.

IMGP4997_zps20f0c870.jpg
 

blewsbreaker

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Dec 29, 2003
Messages
1,090
Do you think extra gold was added later? Typically, in the neck cavity, on the fretboard-side wall, you can see the different color woods. On this guitar, all the walls are covered in gold.

Here's 8 1014.
main.php

Good point...not one route in the goldtop gallery look like the one in the auction, as far as the amount of paint in the routes... The seller does state the body "might" have been over sprayed along with the neck. The top looks that way to me.
 

Chef Greg

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Jan 17, 2002
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6,611
I rather like the guitar.... LOVE the serial # (mom's b-day) :salude
 

abalonevintage

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Dec 31, 2002
Messages
3,186
It's fairly common to see a 50's Goldtop with multi-layer gold application.

guitar_gibson_1954_les_paul_with_tags_greening.jpg

1954 Gibson Les Paul Standard Goldtop guitar.
 

treeofpain

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Aug 1, 2004
Messages
969
Just goes to show that the Gibson gold finish was a real mother to get right. Some of the thickest finishes I have seen on any guitar were 50's goldtops, especially the "all gold" variants.
 

JJ Blair

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3,460
Fried Okra, the pictures you posted are one layer of gold, and one layer of clear over the top.
 

Aloha_Mark

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Dec 15, 2011
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495
Tell us something about the seller, D-Town. A google check says the store is north of Philadelphia and they are an authorized Gibson dealer. There are good and bad reviews on Yelp.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/d-town-guitars-and-skateboards-doylestown

The cherry on top was the owners belligerent poor attitude. He is one of those people who doesn't look at you when you talk to him or respond. Almost like you are a ghost or bothering him by actually paying him money to support his business. He also has an elitist attitude if you play anything other than a vintage instrument. (Mark W)

Stopped in today to pick up some replacement amplifiers for my school's jazz ensemble. Owner, Rob, could not have been more helpful and accommodating. He set us up with two great-sounding used amps at an amazing price. He also has a beautiful collection of new and vintage guitars and amps in addition to a huge record and CD collection for sale. (Neil D)

It sounds like there is less risk buying from D-Town than Capsule Music (Toronto), but it would appear that 8-1117 is a player grade instrument with quite a few replaced parts. Do I show up in the store, and use my NY hard-bargainer shtick to close the deal? I would bring my blacklight and jeweler's loupe. :foghorn
 

soundworks

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Sep 11, 2007
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19
Rob is the owner of Dtown Guitars and is a straight up guy. He had a '60 standard a few years ago with a headstock repair and disclosed all the issues with that one as well. It took a while for him to move it but eventually it did go. He has a nice shop with a few vintage guitars and amps every so often. I like going in every so often just to stay on top of it. He is also a good friend of George Alessandro of Alessandro Amps, etc who is also good folk. I wouldn't have a problem buying vintage from him but would, as anyone on here would advise, ask all the questions I would ask of anyone else selling it. He's an honest guy in my book.
 

j45

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Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
It's fairly common to see a 50's Goldtop with multi-layer gold application.

guitar_gibson_1954_les_paul_with_tags_greening.jpg

1954 Gibson Les Paul Standard Goldtop guitar.

Great shot of the layering. This layering is typical to all of the all-gold goldtops I've seen or owned. I don't know that I've seen these layers on a standard goldtop. Does anyone know FOR SURE why this was done on all-golds?? Always wondered and speculated but never came up with a logical reason that put it to rest in my mind...

Not sure but from looking at my own all-gold models... seems like the layers are clear-gold-clear-gold.... that they actually have two clear coats... is this correct?

And my 2 cents... I see no reason at all to question the finish on the OP guitar... everything including white oxidation looks perfectly normal compared to what I've seen over the years... nothing at all like the subject we had a few weeks back that had heavy gold spray in the routs. Also not unusual to have gold cover the rout walls like this either... re-sprayed guitars have a completely different look that just doesn't look "Gibson" factory. If you look at enough first hand you can tell the difference. I have never, in over a thousand Gibson's that have passed through my hands over past 30-40 years seen a Gibson that looked like a real "over-sprayed" guitar. Especially in the 1920-1960 era. They were, after all.... at least in those days.... true, skilled master craftsmen and their work showed it IMO.

EDIT: I understand there was some kind of break down and mistake at Capsule recently... still, even not knowing a thing about them... would hesitate in letting that be something that becomes comments reflective of their actual integrity. Mistakes happen... don't know the details that transpired leading up to the incident but I could tell stories of MUCH bigger, well respected names that have made mistakes. We are talking about very, very tiny percentages when looking at long term reputable individuals that may have made a single mistake over the course of tens of thousands of events. And even then, rectified immediately. You really have to look at the whole picture, prior history as well as how a mistake is handled before popping off on the internet. Our membership does carry weight in the world-wide vintage guitar community and we should govern ourselves accordingly, take time to truly investigate before making what could be possibly damaging and inaccurate assumptions about integrity of others.
 
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J.D.

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May 24, 2006
Messages
9,915
Great shot of the layering. This layering is typical to all of the all-gold goldtops I've seen or owned. I don't know that I've seen these layers on a standard goldtop. Does anyone know FOR SURE why this was done on all-golds?? Always wondered and speculated but never came up with a logical reason that put it to rest in my mind...

Not sure but from looking at my own all-gold models... seems like the layers are clear-gold-clear-gold.... that they actually have two clear coats... is this correct?

And my 2 cents... I see no reason at all to question the finish on the OP guitar... everything including white oxidation looks perfectly normal compared to what I've seen over the years... nothing at all like the subject we had a few weeks back that had heavy gold spray in the routs. Also not unusual to have gold cover the rout walls like this either... re-sprayed guitars have a completely different look that just doesn't look "Gibson" factory. If you look at enough first hand you can tell the difference. I have never, in over a thousand Gibson's that have passed through my hands over past 30-40 years seen a Gibson that looked like a real "over-sprayed" guitar. Especially in the 1920-1960 era. They were, after all.... at least in those days.... true, skilled master craftsmen and their work showed it IMO.

EDIT: I understand there was some kind of break down and mistake at Capsule recently... still, even not knowing a thing about them... would hesitate in letting that be something that becomes comments reflective of their actual integrity. Mistakes happen... don't know the details that transpired leading up to the incident but I could tell stories of MUCH bigger, well respected names that have made mistakes. We are talking about very, very tiny percentages when looking at long term reputable individuals that may have made a single mistake over the course of tens of thousands of events. And even then, rectified immediately. You really have to look at the whole picture, prior history as well as how a mistake is handled before popping off on the internet. Our membership does carry weight in the world-wide vintage guitar community and we should govern ourselves accordingly, take time to truly investigate before making what could be possibly damaging and inaccurate assumptions about integrity of others.

My "guess" would be that the Mahogany pores on the back were more difficult to fill and hide than the top Maple, so an extra coat of gold paint was applied to the Mahogany surfaces.
 

JJ Blair

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Jan 9, 2011
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3,460
JD, usually you do a clear coat base before the gold, to fill that grain. I would think that they might spray more than one coat to not have the grain from the mahogany show through. That gold coat isn't as opaque as you might think. Gold tops are kind of a pain in the ass to spray. But that would be a waste of bronze to keep doing gold coats to fill the grain that clear would all on its own.
 

tonar8353

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Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
490
I shoot gold powder with a few coats of clear between coats to get a good build and opacity. I don't know if Gibson did it that way but it helps me get a deeper more level finish before I put the final four coats of clear prior to wet sanding and rubbing it out.
 

Progear

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Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
652
Do I show up in the store, and use my NY hard-bargainer shtick to close the deal? I would bring my blacklight and jeweler's loupe. :foghorn[/QUOTE]

Everytime a NYork'r walks into my business, the price goes up so they can feel better that they got a deal after they beat me up on the price... And yes, I'am originally a NYork'r... YMMV...:laugh2:
 

AliGZero

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Oct 17, 2014
Messages
142
Rob is the owner of Dtown Guitars and is a straight up guy. He had a '60 standard a few years ago with a headstock repair and disclosed all the issues with that one as well. It took a while for him to move it but eventually it did go. He has a nice shop with a few vintage guitars and amps every so often. I like going in every so often just to stay on top of it. He is also a good friend of George Alessandro of Alessandro Amps, etc who is also good folk. I wouldn't have a problem buying vintage from him but would, as anyone on here would advise, ask all the questions I would ask of anyone else selling it. He's an honest guy in my book.
I've bought, sold and traded a bunch of guitars at D Town. I agree that Rob is legit. He doesn't smile a lot, but he knows his stuff. New Yorkers will find him a very tough bargainer.
 

sws1

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Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,742
Great shot of the layering. This layering is typical to all of the all-gold goldtops I've seen or owned. I don't know that I've seen these layers on a standard goldtop. Does anyone know FOR SURE why this was done on all-golds?? Always wondered and speculated but never came up with a logical reason that put it to rest in my mind...

I recently read an excerpt from a Gibson book that you can find on Google where someone who used to work there explained the Goldtop. He said, (and I'm paraphrasing)..."we then sprayed 1 or 2 coats of gold, making sure it had good coverage."

I'll see if I can find the reference, although to be honest, I have no idea how I found it in the first place.


UPDATE: I found the book and the section. Read the paragraphs under "The Finishing Process":

https://books.google.com/books?id=N...v=onepage&q=gibson goldtop gold coats&f=false
 
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