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2003 Braz Stingers, Music Machine, etc

jimmyace2006

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Dec 24, 2007
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Does anyone know what happened to to that old thread that Dave Carpenter started where he introduced himself, Music Machine, etc., and talked about that run of guitars from his old store? The thread spanned several years and it had several pages. I can not find the thread. Maybe it was taken down for some reason?

Thanks,
JA
 

Marko S

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Jul 9, 2015
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:dude: Hey! I tried searching for it a few months ago and I only found the thread as a google search result, but every time I clicked on it I got "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator". I thought it might have been just a simple issue that would get fixed, but the thread doesn't even show up on google anymore. It had so much good info on the MM Stingers but it seems to be gone...:dang
 

jimmyace2006

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I wonder why the mods are not responding to this question..........?



.........
 

renderit

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I wonder why the mods are not responding to this question..........?



.........


Caribbean Ocean: The Bermuda Triangle has expanded today to become a dodecahedron claiming many web based moderators....
 

LPCollector

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Hey John!

I have some of that thread saved as screen shots, there is a slim chance that I have what you need.
What 'cha looking for?
 

jimmyace2006

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Hey John!

I have some of that thread saved as screen shots, there is a slim chance that I have what you need.
What 'cha looking for?

I am looking privately for a friend at one of the specific guitars that Dave commented on, that is, if he did comment on it. I thought he did. Probably would have been near the end of the thread.

I wonder why they took it down.


..........
 

Rick van Heel

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Not sure what happened to the old thread but I worked with Dave Carpenter on the Les Paul Stinger run and bought Music Machine from him when he retired. If anyone needs any information on the Les Paul Stingers or any other Music Machine runs, I am happy to help!
 

goldtop0

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Not sure what happened to the old thread but I worked with Dave Carpenter on the Les Paul Stinger run and bought Music Machine from him when he retired. If anyone needs any information on the Les Paul Stingers or any other Music Machine runs, I am happy to help!



Hey Rick, good to see you here.
Back in the day I agonised over a '03 Stinger and the '03 Braz R0 that I eventually bought from you..........I learnt so much with that first Historic and it's stood me in good stead ever since:salude

Steve
 

goldtop0

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Hello Steve!

Thanks for the welcome. Those were fun times, do you still have your Stingers?

Well that's the decision I had to make at the time, a Stinger which cost more or the '03 Braz R0.......so I opted for the great looking R0.
The pics you had on the net back then were excellent and you sent me a whole bunch more....... then I pulled the trigger.
I sold that LP 3 years ago but not before I'd bought a few more from the USA..........it's been a great learning curve these last 15 years......thanks to you kicking it off for me in '03:2cool
 

Ragnar

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My name is Rick van Heel, I worked for Dave Carpenter for 20 years and later bought Music Machine from him. I helped Dave conceive this run and was at the factory with him when we pulled all the wood for these guitars. There is a lot of wrong information about these guitars online, including in this forum. I still have all the original invoices and records for these guitars, if anybody wants accurate information, please hit me up! I also have original Stinger brochures and original COA's that I can replace, as I have the blanks and I hand filled out most of the originals. Thanks!
 

TBird

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May 22, 2003
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Hey Rick , glad to see you here and been thinking about the Music Machine days off and on for a long while. You guys were at the top of the game with outrageously fantastic gear at the turn of the century then POOF --- or at least seemingly --- gone but not forgotten . Hope you are all doing well!

I was fortunate to score Page Serial number 001 from you guys in '04 and was wandering if you can say, or if you know the other three guitars that were in the limited run that were amongst the four guitars returned from Page's home after he evaluated the thirty guitars that Gibson sent to select from. I understood from you guys and Gibson that 1 guitar remained with JPP, twenty five were autographed on the headstock for the Autographed versions and four were returned to Gibson w/ early releases in the first traunch of the 150 No1 run. I believe I received mine in April and the certificate that he signed had an early June date --- without going to look --- but have always been curious if the owners of the other 3 guitars know they were at Pages and played/evaluated by him along with all the others? I bet they would love to know that bit of their guitar history if they do not.

I understand also that Gibson was obliged to take him 30 LP's to select from after the problems associated with their 90's release of the Jimmy Page Les Paul. All of the LP's were deemed acceptable to him as Gibby was on best behavior with these to get this launch nailed and secure future Page releases. He chose what he chose and that was that so thanks for anything you can share on this bit of Gibson/Page trivia as it was not discussed much at the time and any other related info on this run appreciated. I am very much still enjoying this guitar and on the thin neck carve --- seems like all the guys who could really rip in that era preferred the x small necks, which I had never really observed. Thanks
 

Ragnar

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Hello!

Yeah, it was bittersweet when I closed Music Machine in 2016. After Gibson decided to "blow up" all the internet dealers in 2004 of which we were the largest, things just never were the same with our ability to pick wood, do exclusive one offs, etc. It is quite a story, we went from being Gibson Dealer of the Year in 2003 to being sued by Gibson in 2004 because we refused to take our website down. At the time, we had about 900 Custom Shop Gibson's in our shop in a town with a population of about 50k. If we could not sell online, we were done. So, Gibson sued us. We won! There is probably a book in there waiting to be written on how the big boys tried to squash us, little guys! Guitar Center ended up buying our URL Guitarsale.com and made it into their Premium Reserve site on Musicians Friend. I paid $8 for that URL in 1997 and they paid over 7 figures for it, so it kind of worked out well for us! Anyway, back to the Page guitars. I had heard a rumor that Rick Genbar got one, who was the head of Gibson Custom at the time, and also that Henry himself took one. The third one, who knows, probably another employee. I imagine we will not know until a family member takes possesion of the guitar and wants to inquire about it as I am sure the guys that have em are not talking about them!

Rick
 

J.D.

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A (now ex) Gibson CS employee Pat Foley (then Artist Relations Manager) I heard was very instrumental in making that "Page #1" run happen. I'd bet he and/or Edwin Wilson know the details.
 

Ragnar

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It would not surprise me if Edwin took one! There is very little known run of Blister Top 58 LP's that we did in 2002 before the Stinger run. Dave Carpenter and I picked out 9 Eastern Hard Rock Maple Blister tops at the factory with the help of Edwin and we numbered them 1 through 9 and had Edwin sign the back of the headstock. I guess when Henry found out, he was pissed as he did not want any names on an LP that were not signature models. Apparently, we almost got him fired!
 

goldtop0

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Hello!

Yeah, it was bittersweet when I closed Music Machine in 2016. After Gibson decided to "blow up" all the internet dealers in 2004 of which we were the largest, things just never were the same with our ability to pick wood, do exclusive one offs, etc. It is quite a story, we went from being Gibson Dealer of the Year in 2003 to being sued by Gibson in 2004 because we refused to take our website down. At the time, we had about 900 Custom Shop Gibson's in our shop in a town with a population of about 50k. If we could not sell online, we were done. So, Gibson sued us. We won! There is probably a book in there waiting to be written on how the big boys tried to squash us, little guys! Guitar Center ended up buying our URL Guitarsale.com and made it into their Premium Reserve site on Musicians Friend. I paid $8 for that URL in 1997 and they paid over 7 figures for it, so it kind of worked out well for us!

Rick
I watched in absolute amazement as all the 'restructuring of distribution' by Gibson went on over that 2004/05 period...........pleased that you were able to get the upperhand(in a way) as it turned out.
Subsequent to that, the thing that got me and it may still be in place with Gibson ??(re the internet selling shutdowm) is that some major stores in the US would not sell/send new guitars overseas to private individuals..........which is crazy, for example in my country we have a population of 4.8 million and virtually no selection of Gibsons available in the one major store that can stock them.
 
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TBird

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May 22, 2003
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Thanks Rick and interesting info. Glad you were able to score on your URL! I thought at the time that Henry's Big Box moves in '04 and beyond were the beginning of the end for him, if not Gibson. Everyone who was capable of supporting the Custom Shop's mission over the long haul knew that the independent network was the place to go for good service, info and gear. The big box was the last place to go....Indicative of how detached and clueless re the customer. I think we are now at full cycle at about 20 years out and market forces have self-righted the failed strategy and hope it's not too late. Ton's of lost sales perhaps never to be made up due to that move in particular. Stay well and party on!
 

El Gringo

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I seen a Music Machine Blister top Les Paul with Edwin Wilson signature on the back of the headstock on Reverb this morning and it was so delightful I tell you !
 
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