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50s Wiring, Did I Get it Wrong?

CreepyCarol

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
5
Hi, excuse me for the obligatory 50s wiring post, but I've been having trouble collecting information on exactly what this wiring does after many google searches. It prevents too much treble roll-off from turning down the volume, I know that, but after wiring 50s wiring in my Les Paul myself, I've noticed something that I've never heard anyone mention about 50s wiring, and that is that both volume and tone pots somewhat act as a master tone and volume, in the middle position turning down one pot shuts off both pickups. I've owned a 4 knob two humbucker guitar with independent volume and tone pots for each pickup in the middle position, but I've never played another Les Paul, vintage or modern, with the one I've recently purchased and currently working on with this wiring being a body with no hardware or electronics, so I'm unsure whether having conjoined volume pots with one affecting both pots are usual or if I've just made a mistake with my wiring. Also, my bridge tone pot seems to be reversed? When the pot is all the way down at 0, it sounds as if it's on 10, and when it's on 10, it sounds like the tone has been rolled off, and this is only for my bridge pot, not neck, and it persists in both positions too, middle and bridge. Everything else works well, volume pots work fine with each pickup, and neck tone works fine, it's just those two things I've mentioned that I have trouble wrapping my head around. The joint volume and tone pots I can understand being usual and me just not knowing that, but a reversed bridge tone pot? Surely that has to be a wiring mistake on my end or a bad pot, but I'm curious whether anyone here might understand what's going on to cause that, as I don't have much expertise on guitar wiring, and with this being my first wiring job, I'm lucky to get any sound at all on the first try. I apologize for such a long post and complicated questions, but I'll be thrilled to get a helpful response from anyone here, I really do appreciate it.
 

DutchRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Messages
872
Some pics of the cavity makes trouble shooting a lot easier.
The whole idea is basically moving the tone cap to the output of the volume instead of the input. My '55 goldtop and reissues need both volumes to play in the middle position so that's just the way the controls work in 50's style wiring.
 

PaulD

Active member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
673
The interaction between the controls that you describe is normal and yes, turning one volume down while in the middle position will cut the output. The tone pot working backwards sounds as though you have used the wrong pair of terminals. Only two of the lugs on the tone pot should be in use (looking from the back of the pot with the lugs pointing upwards the left hand and the middle lug are used). One of these lugs should be grounded by soldering it to the pot case and the other connects to the capacitor, it makes no difference which one is grounded and which one connects to the capacitor, it can be wired either way. The other lug must not be connected to anything and is not grounded.
 

CreepyCarol

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
5
Some pics of the cavity makes trouble shooting a lot easier.
The whole idea is basically moving the tone cap to the output of the volume instead of the input. My '55 goldtop and reissues need both volumes to play in the middle position so that's just the way the controls work in 50's style wiring.
Thanks for the clarification on the volume controls, and here's the pic of the cavity: 1618787559683.png
Not the best wiring job, though it was my first like I've said. And as with the tone pot, are only two lugs used on each pot as I could see, the middle grounded and the bottom lug connected to the capacitor with nothing connected to the top lug, just like I've seen in wiring diagrams. As I've said, every other pot works just fine, it is just that one bridge tone pot that's weirdly reversed.
 

PaulD

Active member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
673
Firstly I would double check that the wires from the pickups and switch are the correct way round (pickup wires to the outer vol pot lugs and switch wires to the centre lugs). Secondly, and please don't take this the wrong way, the soldering looks to be very sloppy and any one of those solder joints could be a potential problem. In particular the braided shields don't look to be well soldered to the pot cases and there appears to be a large glob of solder on the centre lug of the bridge volume pot which could be either not making a good connection or shorting to the adjacent lug. Soldering to pot cases is an acquired skill that requires the right tools (an appropriate wattage soldering iron).

Bad solder joints are the cause of many if not most guitar wiring problems so I would suggest practising the technique on an old pot first before attempting to wire a guitar or leaving it to someone who is able to do it properly.
 

CreepyCarol

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
5
Firstly I would double check that the wires from the pickups and switch are the correct way round (pickup wires to the outer vol pot lugs and switch wires to the centre lugs). Secondly, and please don't take this the wrong way, the soldering looks to be very sloppy and any one of those solder joints could be a potential problem. In particular the braided shields don't look to be well soldered to the pot cases and there appears to be a large glob of solder on the centre lug of the bridge volume pot which could be either not making a good connection or shorting to the adjacent lug. Soldering to pot cases is an acquired skill that requires the right tools (an appropriate wattage soldering iron).

Bad solder joints are the cause of many if not most guitar wiring problems so I would suggest practising the technique on an old pot first before attempting to wire a guitar or leaving it to someone who is able to do it properly.
Completely understand your point, this is my very first solder job after all, but that glob of solder is actually on the neck tone pot, not the bridge. I thought that would've been a problem and might've interfered with the pot, but the neck tone control works completely fine. I might take it to a tech and see if they could look into it, as I didn't really get much after working with some of the wirings. Thanks for the input though!
 

CreepyCarol

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
5
The one I was referring to is, as I said, the middle lug of the bridge volume pot (bottom left pot in your picture)
Oh, right, sorry for the confusion, but I believe what you're referring to is actually strands of white hair from the inner shielding of that wire. The picture is pretty blurry, so I can see how you would've thought that, but here's another picture, and from what I can tell, there's no run down or connection to any other lug, and I made sure not to get any hairs in any solder. I will try to resolder the braided shields on the pot case and other ones that might be causing a problem. My soldering skills have drastically improved since then, so I should they should at least be decent this time around.

image_2021-04-20_152003.png
 

CreepyCarol

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
5
Fixed! Not entirely sure how, but the reversed pot issue is gone. I just redid some not-so-solid soldering and added some solder on weak spots around the pots, and somehow, that worked! It also managed to fix some hum that was coming from the guitar, which I thought was coming from the amp, but nope, probably some grounding issue in the wiring. Anyways, thanks for the replies, and I hope you all fare well with both your life and guitar journies.
 

PaulD

Active member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
673
Glad to hear you fixed it. Bad grounds and poor solder joints can often be the cause of a multitude of weird and unexpected faults, typically the connection will not be completely broken but will be a high resistance so you are effectively putting a resistor in to the circuit where there shouldn't be one.
 
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