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8 5419 is a fading beauty

zorglub!

Burst Detective!
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
5,230
We already had some old blurry photos of it, but these new ones are great!

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And of course the old ones...

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sws1

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,846
Was there a difference in the color / dyes between '58 and '59? I'm aware they changed in mid-60, but to my eye, '58s do look different.
 

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,462
Was there a difference in the color / dyes between '58 and '59? I'm aware they changed in mid-60, but to my eye, '58s do look different.

I think it's around 9 0800 that the cherry dye changed to where it fades to brown, and not just fades out like this. I'm not sure how long that stretch lasts before they make a switch in 1960. It seems like they go back to this type of fading at some point, IIRC. I also don't know if they just changed the red/blue mixture, which results in this, or the brand of aniline. But Pearly is a great example that different fade.
 

Stoj

Active member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
3,514
Another beauty, nice subtle top on this one :dude:
 

j45

Active member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
9,081
I think it's around 9 0800 that the cherry dye changed to where it fades to brown, and not just fades out like this.

Thank you for confirming that observation. A while back I mentioned this phenomena and inadvertently got into a tinkling tournament with some forum "gurus" and expert "authenticators" who insisted no such thing ever happened with the red dye (fading to brown). I don't know why the red dye thing happened in the '59 time frame but it happened with more guitar manufacturers than just Gibson. They must have sourced their dyes from the same company. Fender also had a run of guitars (I've only seen Stratocasters do it) in that period in which the red dye both faded completely away on some and turned brown on others.. I had a ES-350 that clearly did this and the band was brown on the top, red on back and under guard where it saw less light. Also had a late '58 and a '59 Strat that the red band was still vivid red under the very small area of the guard right in the bass bout cutaway by the low E string and fingerboard... then transformed straight away into brown where the red dye had been exposed over the years. This was also the first time I noticed Fender didn't bother to spray the red band under the larger part of the pick guard in the cutaway on the treble bout side.
 
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zorglub!

Burst Detective!
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
5,230
Thank you for confirming that observation. A while back I mentioned this phenomena and inadvertently got into a tinkling tournament with some forum "gurus" and expert "authenticators" who insisted no such thing ever happened with the red dye (fading to brown). I don't know why the red dye thing happened in the '59 time frame but it happened with more guitar manufacturers than just Gibson. They must have sourced their dyes from the same company. Fender also had a run of guitars (I've only seen Stratocasters do it) in that period in which the red dye both faded completely away on some and turned brown on others.. I had a ES-350 that clearly did this and the band was brown on the top, red on back and under guard where it saw less light. Also had a late '58 and a '59 Strat that the red band was still vivid red under the very small area of the guard right in the bass bout cutaway by the low E string and fingerboard... then transformed straight away into brown where the red dye had been exposed over the years. This was also the first time I noticed Fender didn't bother to spray the red band under the larger part of the pick guard in the cutaway on the treble bout side.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
 

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,462
Thank you for confirming that observation. A while back I mentioned this phenomena and inadvertently got into a tinkling tournament with some forum "gurus" and expert "authenticators" who insisted no such thing ever happened with the red dye (fading to brown). I don't know why the red dye thing happened in the '59 time frame but it happened with more guitar manufacturers than just Gibson. They must have sourced their dyes from the same company. Fender also had a run of guitars (I've only seen Stratocasters do it) in that period in which the red dye both faded completely away on some and turned brown on others.. I had a ES-350 that clearly did this and the band was brown on the top, red on back and under guard where it saw less light. Also had a late '58 and a '59 Strat that the red band was still vivid red under the very small area of the guard right in the bass bout cutaway by the low E string and fingerboard... then transformed straight away into brown where the red dye had been exposed over the years. This was also the first time I noticed Fender didn't bother to spray the red band under the larger part of the pick guard in the cutaway on the treble bout side.

Yeah, it's been trick for me to replicate. I had to try a couple different brands of aniline, but I seem to have figured it out.
 
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