Best current available JTM45 / 1987 clones?

[Mr. Papa]

Hi folks,
I've found a few older posts (around 2000-2005) about JTM45 and 50 watt Marshall clones, but not a lot of new material. Since the market has changed so much since then, I wanted to ask what you're seeing out there for great 30-50 watt Marshall clones? It looks like Metro and Blockhead are not doing amps any more, but there are still Germino, Top Hat, and some other established brands still on the market, and now Victoria has a JTM45 and Magnatone's M-80 looks/sounds pretty great in clips. The Dr. Z KT-66 (not quite a Marshall, I know, but still cool for OG boutique) is still available, and now there's the Z-40 which seems "Britishy" enough. What am I missing / who has experience they want to share / what would you be shopping for?

Oh, and Marshall's current 2245 and 1987 models don't look bad, and are priced well. So there's that..

Thanks for sharing any experienced advice and positive information!

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

Magnatones sound really good, but the only one they did with a rectifier tube like the JTM's was the Super 59 MKI. I don't think there are many of those out there and they only did them when they started that amp. I was watching a video with JB recently where he was at some bar playing a Grammatico amp. It was a tweed clone, but when I googled the name I came across the video below for their JTM45. Unfortunately I couldn't find any other videos for a good comparison. They are based in Austin and seem to have a lot of good comments about their amps.

 

[jb_abides]

You can add the Ceriatone JTM45 (built or kit) for consideration, which might be a better bang for your buck, yet not as well regarded as the top-notch Germino.

There was a Marshall Handwired head; I believe they were discontinued ~2017. Now the Reissue.

Finally, when I was evaluating, I opted for the Soultone, made by Michael (Mickey) Corrieri. Fantastic components and build qualifty, options for London Power-Scaling, and a Plexi mode. Soultone was most active in the 2000s. Mickey shifted to passive orders, then shuttered due to an injury ~2013 and sadly passed too early, RIP. They pop up now and again; you have to watch and wait.

Good luck!

 

[Mr. Papa]

JB--Thank you for your response!
I have had bad experiences with every Ceriatone product I have tried. I may be in a small minority, but, never again...
I checked the Germino website and WOW, really cool build options. I've also had good experiences with Victoria in the past and I'm going to check out the Grammatico amps, too.
The Magnatone website had a video with comparisons vs. two other amps and for my money the Magnatone blew them out of the water.

 

[jb_abides]

JB--Thank you for your response!
I have had bad experiences with every Ceriatone product I have tried. I may be in a small minority, but, never again...
I checked the Germino website and WOW, really cool build options. I've also had good experiences with Victoria in the past and I'm going to check out the Grammatico amps, too.
The Magnatone website had a video with comparisons vs. two other amps and for my money the Magnatone blew them out of the water.

You are welcome.

Yes, today I'd be looking at MagnaTone if not 'classic' and Germino if a straight up boutique clone.

Let us what your investigation into the Victoria and Grammatico options bring, and what you land on!

 

[GreenBurst]

Check out the Victory Deputy. There are various head / combo versions available.

Deputy Family Archives - Victory Amps

www.victoryamps.com

 

[Maguchi]

I believe Marshall is still making reissues of both these amps. Why a clone? Price?
Marshall 1987X 50-watt Amplifier Head | Sweetwater https://share.google/Xi5JRCk6I0WeRcszb
Marshall JTM45 2245 30-watt Plexi Tube Head | Sweetwater https://share.google/1TRrbHubDYAGG8OQb

 

[jb_abides]

I believe Marshall is still making reissues of both these amps. Why a clone? Price?
Marshall 1987X 50-watt Amplifier Head | Sweetwater https://share.google/Xi5JRCk6I0WeRcszb
Marshall JTM45 2245 30-watt Plexi Tube Head | Sweetwater https://share.google/1TRrbHubDYAGG8OQb

FYI: The current Marshall 'reissues' are recreations of the topology in PCB, to deliver 'close enough' sounds, just not 'replicas' of the point-to-point turret. Different power tubes on the JTM as well. That's why I cited the 'Handwired' that was phased out.

 

[Maguchi]

FYI: The current Marshall 'reissues' are recreations of the topology in PCB, to deliver 'close enough' sounds, just not 'replicas' of the point-to-point turret. Different power tubes on the JTM as well. That's why I cited the 'Handwired' that was phased out.

Yes, I was aware they were PCB. As are many other amps available today. There are a handful of handwired amps from the bigger manufacturers though. Marshall's been doing PCB wiring since 1973.

 

[Mr. Papa]

It comes down to cost / value. Is the handwired, boutique, turret board amp with secret-sauce transformers worth twice the price of the Marshall PCB, factory amp? I have an SV20 and it sounds pretty great for the price. But would the same circuit built by say Dr. Z sound that much better? I just want to get a fuller picture of what's out there.
(And yes, I would want the option for KT66 in a JTM circuit, but Marshall tech support says they might not fit in the head cabinet, and it would require a circuit mod. Why on earth they scrimped on another inch of head cab height (and an easily-avoidable wiring choice on the of the power tube pins, if I recall correctly being the only difference) when they built this amp is beyond explanation.
They say when it comes to boutique you get 80% of "the magic" for $1,000, 90% for $10,000, and 99% for $100,000. Not much difference between vintage amps and 'Bursts in that regard.

 

[jb_abides]

They say when it comes to boutique you get 80% of "the magic" for $1,000, 90% for $10,000, and 99% for $100,000. Not much difference between vintage amps and 'Bursts in that regard.

True, but at least Gibson Historic Reissues / Murphy Labs have ABR-1s on screws not Nashville on post-bushings. And Custombuckers, which are built like PAFs. Rough analogy.

Even if you don't buy NOS KT66 and look for new KT66, you should have that tube option, PCB or not. That's why keep an eye peeled for the Handwired, or look at Germino... if you want a 'clone' that is. If you want a modern take with boutique quality, personally I'd be saving up for a MagnaTone.

Back to the larger point, the modern Marshalls will get you close enough. And so will the best MIAB pedals paired and dialed in with the right amp: ZVEX Box of Rock, JHS Charlie Brown V4, J Rockett .45 Caliber.

So ultimately, it's a question of what you really want. Just an opinion.

 

[gary buff]

Yes, I was aware they were PCB. As are many other amps available today. There are a handful of handwired amps from the bigger manufacturers though. Marshall's been doing PCB wiring since 1973.

My first Marshall was a '73 PCB M1987 bought in '75, after replacing the 6550s with 34s and rebiasing it had THE SOUND. Loved it so much I soon found another to rotate/supplement as I was gigging a lot back then. Wish I had them now, when they were hot they smelled great

 

[Mr. Papa]

True, but at least Gibson Historic Reissues / Murphy Labs have ABR-1s on screws not Nashville on post-bushings. And Custombuckers, which are built like PAFs. Rough analogy.

So ultimately, it's a question of what you really want. Just an opinion.

Good point on the Reissues. I’m not buying a LP that doesn’t have ABR-1s screwed into the wood. As bewildered by why Heritage Guitars uses Nashville posts ad I am about a JTM that won’t fit KT66s… definitely cutting the wrong quality corner.

 

[Offshore Angler]

If you shop around you can pick up an original '65 or '66 for under $7K USD. That's about the same price as a custom shop Les Paul. I'd just get an original because it will hold its value. You might even make a buck if you flip it down the road. The delta of a hand wired clone vs the real deal isn't enough to make it worth the clone, and the clone will go down in value whereas the original will go up. Cost of ownership over the long haul - it's cheaper to buy a vintage one.

Chuck

 

[Mr. Papa]

If you shop around you can pick up an original '65 or '66 for under $7K USD. Cost of ownership over the long haul - it's cheaper to buy a vintage one.

That is a fair point, if I can find on for that price.

 

[gary buff]

Not a 1987 but you could dial it down with something and it's "cheap"...no affil

Gruhn Guitars

guitars.com

 

[GreenBurst]

Why on earth they scrimped on another inch of head cab height (and an easily-avoidable wiring choice on the of the power tube pins, if I recall correctly being the only difference) when they built this amp is beyond explanation.

Cost reduction. The cabinet dimensions are a significant cost driver. It also impacts packaging and shipping costs.

Once the business plan is set on a given product every penny saved goes to the bottom line.

 

[GreenBurst]

If you shop around you can pick up an original '65 or '66 for under $7K USD. That's about the same price as a custom shop Les Paul. I'd just get an original because it will hold its value. You might even make a buck if you flip it down the road. The delta of a hand wired clone vs the real deal isn't enough to make it worth the clone, and the clone will go down in value whereas the original will go up. Cost of ownership over the long haul - it's cheaper to buy a vintage one.

Chuck

If "investing" in a vintage amp find one that has already had a filter cap change. That way it's value has been already been adjusted and you will not have to bear the cost of the value hit at a later date. You'll have a better chance of recovering your investment value when selling.

Also keep in mind that unlike vintage guitars vintage amp maintenence is a significant burden of ownership. It is not like owning a vintage Les Paul where proper care (managing temp & humidity) can result in zero maintenence over a long period of time. If played casually you won't even need to worry about
a refret or nut replacement either.

 

[Offshore Angler]

If "investing" in a vintage amp find one that has already had a filter cap change. That way it's value has been already been adjusted and you will not have to bear the cost of the value hit at a later date. You'll have a better chance of recovering your investment value when selling.

Also keep in mind that unlike vintage guitars vintage amp maintenence is a significant burden of ownership. It is not like owning a vintage Les Paul where proper care (managing temp & humidity) can result in zero maintenence over a long period of time. If played casually you won't even need to worry about
a refret or nut replacement either.

Clearly, you've never gigged a vintage Les Paul. Tuners, collapsed bridges, pots, pickups, it never ends.
I spend more on strings over a year than any cap job (which are easy and cheap) would cost. Old Marshalls are really easy to work on. The old resistors can be a hassle if you don't keep up with them but again, not difficult to address. As long as you have the chassis out doing a cap job you can Ohm out the resistors and fix any issues.

Honestly, I find newer amps even less reliable and much harder to fix. That's why I gave up on my MESA stuff. When it was working it sounded great, but that wasn't very often.

Chuck

 

[GreenBurst]

Clearly, you've never gigged a vintage Les Paul. Tuners, collapsed bridges, pots, pickups, it never ends.
I spend more on strings over a year than any cap job (which are easy and cheap) would cost. Old Marshalls are really easy to work on. The old resistors can be a hassle if you don't keep up with them but again, not difficult to address. As long as you have the chassis out doing a cap job you can Ohm out the resistors and fix any issues.

Honestly, I find newer amps even less reliable and much harder to fix. That's why I gave up on my MESA stuff. When it was working it sounded great, but that wasn't very often.

Chuck

Correct. I do have a vintage '63 SG that I play out. No issues as I make sure it's good-to-go before taking it out. It has never failed me. Other than the odd broken string once in a blue moon, but that's easily addressed.

With a guitar you can easily check it out and verify it's readiness with confidence by yourself. An amp is different, electronics can fail whenever. Some failures you can't test for or predict. Others take a lot more work and may need specialized equipment to verify.

A vintage guitar is much easier to maintain than a vintage amp. I think most would agree to that.