• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

Bryan Ray's 59 Burst

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
http://www.burstserial.com/picture.php?/3231/category/963

I read in Tony Bacon's book printed in 2014 that Bryan Ray of Paul McCartney's band had just purchased this LP 59.

PS: if Whitrock sees this here's a question for him. Do real 59's use bushings set into the body for the two bridge posts? I've been unable to get a good pic of the bridge and post removed but the one pic I do see there is no bushing the bridge post screws into. The post screws directly into the Mahagony. Is this correct?
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
http://www.burstserial.com/picture.php?/3231/category/963

I read in Tony Bacon's book printed in 2014 that Bryan Ray of Paul McCartney's band had just purchased this LP 59.

PS: if Whitrock sees this here's a question for him. Do real 59's use bushings set into the body for the two bridge posts? I've been unable to get a good pic of the bridge and post removed but the one pic I do see there is no bushing the bridge post screws into. The post screws directly into the Mahagony. Is this correct?

All ABR-1 style tune-o-matic bridges have the posts going directly into the wood. They still do. :)
 

goldtop0

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,931
http://www.burstserial.com/picture.php?/3231/category/963

I read in Tony Bacon's book printed in 2014 that Bryan Ray of Paul McCartney's band had just purchased this LP 59.

PS: if Whitrock sees this here's a question for him. Do real 59's use bushings set into the body for the two bridge posts? I've been unable to get a good pic of the bridge and post removed but the one pic I do see there is no bushing the bridge post screws into. The post screws directly into the Mahagony. Is this correct?


This one's also in Burst Believers Vol 1 which came out in '13.
In the live pics of him playing it you can see a little flame......thanks for posting:2cool
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
Small nitpicky correction : the posts screw directly into the maple. :salude

Not so small. Maple is pretty hard and heavy wood. I've never read of a wobbly bridge post on 59s. Not bad for 60 years. It just seems odd to me that a $300k guitar doesn't use a bushing. I wonder if this was why the original bursts never sold and had to be discontinued? Did people think the bridge post screw would go wobby?
How come Van Goph couldn't sell any of his paintings?



Tip: whenever reseating a screw into wood or plastic always seat the screw by backing out a 1/4 turn till you feel the screw fall down into the old grooves. This way you won't gouge out a new set of grooves.
Do this for steel too. It is the correct way to reinstall any screw or bolt.
 

NYCBURST

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
288
They were $300 guitars, not $300K.

Besides, it doesn't need a bushing. :ganz
And as Tom will attest too, Gibson eventually went to a bushing... It was 1959... early days... But some of us think that the early design contributes to the quintessential "Burst Sound" So, we want that direct screw to wood vibration.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Maybe if they had called the burst "the bushingless wonder" it would have sold. Marketing is everything.

Maple, Rosewood and Ebony make great fingerboards that hold frets a hundred years. Maybe it really is no big deal not using bushings in Maple.http
Seems like a wide base design like Faber makes would have been better.
https://www.faberusa.com/product-ca...s/for-new-builds/faber-bswkit-for-new-builds/

Better is subjective. :hmm

In this case, 'better' implies a change in sound [because of a more stable bridge].
Whether that new sound is truly better, it's an opinion.

And why stop there? Many consider this bridge concept even better. :ganz

DSCN1312.JPG
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
Better is subjective. :hmm

In this case, 'better' implies a change in sound [because of a more stable bridge].
Whether that new sound is truly better, it's an opinion.

And why stop there? Many consider this bridge concept even better. :ganz

DSCN1312.JPG

That may very likely be the case. The Maple cap seems to have no prob holding the bridge posts.
The only reason I can see for the poor sales of the LP that was discontinued in 60 may have been the price in conjunction with a slow economy. Les Paul's career may have slowed in the late 50s as well which dimmed the light
focused on his guitar creation.
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
The unbushed ABR1 was an improvement over the trapeze which was a real issue in 52. I guess they knew the ABR! would work.
 

sws1

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,846
There have been several original '59s with posts that were replaced with bushings. Was it because of damage? Stripped threads? Someone wanted metal bushings? Vanity? I don't know. I suspect a combination.
 

DANELECTRO

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Messages
6,319
There have been several original '59s with posts that were replaced with bushings. Was it because of damage? Stripped threads? Someone wanted metal bushings? Vanity? I don't know. I suspect a combination.

My guess is that maybe the bridge was in need of replacement, possibly due to worn saddles or a collapsed bridge body. I don't think that Gibson was even making the ABR bridge in the 1970's and 1980's, so the only replacement part available from Gibson would have been the Nashville-style Tune-a-Matic bridge which fits into bushings. Finding vintage-correct replacement parts wasn't as easy back then as it is now.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
The only reason I can see for the poor sales of the LP that was discontinued in 60 may have been the price in conjunction with a slow economy. Les Paul's career may have slowed in the late 50s as well which dimmed the light
focused on his guitar creation.

The Les Paul was slightly cheaper than a Strat at the time. I doubt price had anything to do with its demise.
And I also doubt that Les' career influenced it either. It seems most buyers of Les Pauls in the 50s were not playing a style of music similar to Les.
The guitar was heavy and the look may have been considered 'old fashioned' to many buyers. :hmm
 

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,592
There have been several original '59s with posts that were replaced with bushings. Was it because of damage? Stripped threads? Someone wanted metal bushings? Vanity? I don't know. I suspect a combination.

I've always wondered about the intonation part myself. The ABR has fairly limited enough travel even with turning saddles, or at least enough so that if they were originally set up with .012 or .013 flats you'd think they either were misplaced from the factory or the holes were re-drilled to properly intonate .009's?? I've seen touch-up around post holes on a 50's custom that comes to mind. Now they're drilled for about .011-.009 travel with I think .010 being the stock wire gauge but if I put .013 flats with that huge wrapped low E no way mine will intonate.


My guess is that maybe the bridge was in need of replacement, possibly due to worn saddles or a collapsed bridge body. I don't think that Gibson was even making the ABR bridge in the 1970's and 1980's, so the only replacement part available from Gibson would have been the Nashville-style Tune-a-Matic bridge which fits into bushings. Finding vintage-correct replacement parts wasn't as easy back then as it is now.

I thought ABR's were used up until '75 or so?
 

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,462
If the replacement is the Nashville bridge, I'm not sure it was an improvement.

The post into wood was fine enough for all ABR equipped models for years. I don't find any play with the post into the wood. There can be some play of the bridge on the post and thumbwheel, though.
 
Last edited:

58burst

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2002
Messages
2,176
The Les Paul was slightly cheaper than a Strat at the time. I doubt price had anything to do with its demise.
And I also doubt that Les' career influenced it either. It seems most buyers of Les Pauls in the 50s were not playing a style of music similar to Les.
The guitar was heavy and the look may have been considered 'old fashioned' to many buyers. :hmm

My theory about the unpopularity of bursts at the time is amplifiers- Fenders and gretch's sound much brighter and more twangy through most of the then-current amplifiers, while bursts sound a little dull- It took marshals to make people hear how good they can sound.
 

Pellman73

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
1,762
My theory about the unpopularity of bursts at the time is amplifiers- Fenders and gretch's sound much brighter and more twangy through most of the then-current amplifiers, while bursts sound a little dull- It took marshals to make people hear how good they can sound.

that is a really cool theory. I like it!

ZENTAR!

FWIW I jut got a new-- limited run (so did Bob Womack) 61 SG RI that Daves Guitar split w Sweetwater and it has the ABR-1 bridge in it as opposed to the nashville bridge like the normal stock 61 RI-- which I think is cool

why?

I LIKE to think that the connection of the string plucked to the wood vibration is better with the bridge screw which goes right in as opposed to a screw which goes into a metal condom which then goes into the guitar

when I started this reply I had no intention of comparing a nashville bridge screw/bushing with sex with a condom versus free bird but.... well that's how it came out and I"m going with it!
 

Zentar

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
830
that is a really cool theory. I like it!

ZENTAR!

FWIW I jut got a new-- limited run (so did Bob Womack) 61 SG RI that Daves Guitar split w Sweetwater and it has the ABR-1 bridge in it as opposed to the nashville bridge like the normal stock 61 RI-- which I think is cool

why?

I LIKE to think that the connection of the string plucked to the wood vibration is better with the bridge screw which goes right in as opposed to a screw which goes into a metal condom which then goes into the guitar

when I started this reply I had no intention of comparing a nashville bridge screw/bushing with sex with a condom versus free bird but.... well that's how it came out and I"m going with it!

I never noticed the old bursts were ABR1 without bushings. I have ABR1 on my Epi Casino but it uses a bushing.

Now that I've had a week to think about it I totally agree with your condom theory. I have no doubt that Maple is plenty capable of holding a bushingless post. Look how well Maple holds frets.
And I definitely see how more vibration could be transferred to the body without a bushing. Vintage builders prefer to leave out the bushing as well.
 
Top