Differences in Early 1970s Les Pauls?

[ASadDay]

Good day everyone!
I've been looking around at early 1970s (1970-1974) Gibson Les Paul Customs and I've been wondering as to what makes the earlier ones so special. From what I've seen from other peoples' posts, the early 1970s Norlin Era Les Pauls (usually) sounded nicer than those of the later years. With that in mind, what makes these 4 years (1970-1974) so different from eachother? The prices commanded by a 1970 Les Paul is substantially higher than one from 1974. What makes this so? Is there some drastic change in technique or wood type? Was production down to an all-time low for a certain year? Or would it just be the novelty of owning a guitar that's a year (or years) older? Some insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[Wilko]

There EDIT: are major differences in those model years.

The neck joint in '72 is far superior being a transistional tenon cut square and glued solid on three sides. Mahogany neck. After '76 you get a maple neck with e "rocker" tenon. Totally lame in comparison
'72 also got ABR style bridge with studs into wood. late 70's have metal bushings and Schaller-made "nashville" bridges.

Long/transitional tenon construction
maple caps with slight dome carving
Mahogany necks
large volute
ABR style bridge with studs into wood

'slight cosmetic things like knobs, and some later one might have Schaller made bridges.

 

[marshall1987]

With the early '70s Les Paul Deluxe.......no significant differences other than the volute gradually gaining in size, and the top carve becoming less dished

However, the dramatic increase in production totals from say, 1970-1974, could point to QC/QA issues. See numbers below:


LES PAUL DELUXE PRODUCTION TOTALS 1970-1974



1970 - --------2587

1971 --------- 4466

1972 --------- 5194

1973 -------- 10484

1974 --------- 7367

This is just the LP Deluxe model. Not included is the LP Custom (25,760 produced from 1970-1974), and LP Recording (very small number produced). See Web site below for more info.


http://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/gibson/Les_Paul_Deluxe_shipping.php

 

[Bob Womack]

This is just the LP Deluxe model. Not included is the LP Custom (25,760 produced from 1970-1974), and LP Recording (very small number produced).

It also doesn't include the LP Standard which started a very limited run from 1973-75 in Kalamazoo before the official relaunch from the Nashville factory in '76.

The biggest differences between LPs built in Kalamazoo and the later Nashville models (up to the point when they eliminated the sandwich body) were the three-piece mahogany neckand the soft-tooled, more hand-crafted nature of the Kalamazoo shop as opposed to the three-piece maple neck and a more uniform, hard-tooled Nashville plant when Gibson got a chance to start again from scratch.

Bob

 

[Big Al]

It also doesn't include the LP Standard which started a very limited run from 1973-75 in Kalamazoo before the official relaunch from the Nashville factory in '76.

The biggest differences between LPs built in Kalamazoo and the later Nashville models (up to the point when they eliminated the sandwich body) were the three-piece mahogany neckand the soft-tooled, more hand-crafted nature of the Kalamazoo shop as opposed to the three-piece maple neck and a more uniform, hard-tooled Nashville plant when Gibson got a chance to start again from scratch.

Bob

Yep, what he said. The Kalamazoo made Lesters were built in the same factory, and in many cases by the same people on the same machines as the original Lesters of the 50's. As has been noted there are construction spec differences, most notably the headstock shape and pitch, neck is three piece mahogany, (very stable), has a greater pitch and features the tight long tenon that ends at the pickup cavity. The body is the multi lam mahogany maple mahogany sandwich and in general a three piece maple top, sometimes center joined two piece.

They are heavy but sound delicious. I personally am very fond of the Mini Humbucking Deluxe Pickup an think it is a gem. Most people would be very surprised at all the Classic Les Paul tone on recordings that are actually a Deluxe with Mini's. I could start a whole thread just about these much maligned and misunderstood pickups, but those that know, KNOW!

I love the rounded more classic 50's style neck profiles of the earliest versions and have always found the latter slightly flattened/thin profile that swells into a full 50's profile as you go up the neck to be very comfortable and practical. Not everyone feels this way of course, but a fair assessment made after using one long enough to become comfortable with one usually finds another fan of this unique profile. It is not as thin as later Maple Neck versions and has the increased thickness taper that seems to be more common on these early 70's Les Pauls.

There are other things of course but these are the main differences, yes the volute and softened dome carve too, but that is common to the later 70's too, they are a cool example of Les Paul that have unique features and a signature sound. I love these guitars and they were of my Era so they are familiar and nostalgic for me. My first brand new Les Pauls were from this time, a Custom and a Deluxe. I was Soooo sooo very excited when I got them. I polished them to death with Liquid Gold Polish and felt so lucky and proud to have them. I was on cloud 9 man! I GOTS ME A GIBSON LES PAUL!!! WOO FLIPPITY HOOO!

Anyone my age who had a similar experience will know that feeling.

 

[guitplayer]

Right on Big Al. like some 50`s guitars ,neck size will vary. Only a hand
full have a full feel to them.
I have quite a few from the early 70`s. By far this one has the largest,
most 50`sish / LSLP neck I have seen.

 

[marshall1987]

GUITPLAYER.......that's an odd looking neck P-90, what with the pole screws aligned on the edge of the pickup, instead of the middle. What gives? Thanks and beautiful guitar you have there.:2cool

 

[marshall1987]

Here's my ESLP (Early Seventies Les Paul):

 

[Big Al]

GUITPLAYER.......that's an odd looking neck P-90, what with the pole screws aligned on the edge of the pickup, instead of the middle. What gives? Thanks and beautiful guitar you have there.:2cool

That is a Duncan full size hum bucker in a P90 cover. They are awesome! That guitar has the two piece top and color of the 70-72's I sometimes find. VERY VERY COOL.

 

[Big Al]

Here's my ESLP (Early Seventies Les Paul):

Wow that is clean. Mine has arm greening and some wear. I put P90's in.

 

[Big Al]

.

 

[guitplayer]

GUITPLAYER.......that's an odd looking neck P-90, what with the pole screws aligned on the edge of the pickup, instead of the middle. What gives? Thanks and beautiful guitar you have there.:2cool

:salude

 

[Progrocker111]

Basically they are nearly the same in specs, but on the other side there are some not so insignificant constructional or technical differences.

1. 70 - early 73 -- still late 60s electronics with black Sprague caps and still 500k pots, in mid 73 they switched to 300k pots
2. 70 - early 72 -- still wood veneered headstock, in early 72 the plastic overlay comes to scene
3. often 70 and 71 Customs have a bit thicker body, very close to late 60s and 50s specs
4. most often 70 and 71s have lower neck angle than 72 and later

So i would say that the 70 and 71s are still very very close to late 60s ones.

 

[Progrocker111]

I personally am very fond of the Mini Humbucking Deluxe Pickup an think it is a gem. Most people would be very surprised at all the Classic Les Paul tone on recordings that are actually a Deluxe with Mini's. I could start a whole thread just about these much maligned and misunderstood pickups, but those that know, KNOW!

Yes, Big Al, here are some clips of my Deluxe through cranked 72 Hiwatt (second one is cranked a bit more). This guitar has such clear and raunchy tone, very funny guitar.

https://soundcloud.com/progrocker-2/lpdeluxe

https://soundcloud.com/progrocker-2/deluxe22

 

[marshall1987]

Basically they are nearly the same in specs, but on the other side there are some not so insignificant constructional or technical differences.

1. 70 - early 73 -- still late 60s electronics with black Sprague caps and still 500k pots, in mid 73 they switched to 300k pots
2. 70 - early 72 -- still wood veneered headstock, in early 72 the plastic overlay comes to scene
3. often 70 and 71 Customs have a bit thicker body, very close to late 60s and 50s specs
4. most often 70 and 71s have lower neck angle than 72 and later

So i would say that the 70 and 71s are still very very close to late 60s ones.

Prog...you got this part right about the lower neck angles on the 1970/71 LP Deluxes.

Check out the low neck-fit angle on my 1970 LP Deluxe. It looks around 3 [SUP]o[/SUP] to me.

 

[Big Al]

You can't really judge neck angle by bridge height. For me that is too severe an angle, but I know I am in the minority. I'd be top wrapping that bad boy. Is that the real minty one you have? That Deluxe is a showstpper!!:salude

 

[Big Al]

Yes, Big Al, here are some clips of my Deluxe through cranked 72 Hiwatt (second one is cranked a bit more). This guitar has such clear and raunchy tone, very funny guitar.

https://soundcloud.com/progrocker-2/lpdeluxe

https://soundcloud.com/progrocker-2/deluxe22

BROTHER! You have been killing me with those Hiwatt clips.:teeth

 

[marshall1987]

You can't really judge neck angle by bridge height. For me that is too severe an angle, but I know I am in the minority. I'd be top wrapping that bad boy. Is that the real minty one you have? That Deluxe is a showstpper!!:salude

Yep....Al.... you're right about the pitfalls of determining the neck pitch angle by bridge height alone. Clearly there are other construction geometries at work with the mortis and tenon. The Gibson Custom Shop utilizes precision gauges when dialing in the 4[SUP]o[/SUP] neck pitch on the models they build. The Gibson USA line incorporates a different set of parameters with the neck fit due mainly to the geometries involved with the less sturdy mortis and tenon ("rocker" tenon).

Nonetheless, a quick inspection of the height of the guitar's bridge in relation to the carved top can be a quick and dirty method of gleaning the approximate neck angle, without the benefit of precision measuring gauges as used by the Gibson Custom Shop. In other words, a low bridge height is generally associated with a shallower neck pitch, and a high bridge height is indicative of a steeper neck pitch.

Again you guessed right.......that's my "minty" LP Deluxe purported to be a 1970 model (1970 coded volume and tone pots). :salude

 

[Detroitdonny]

Is there a difference between the 1972 custom and the 1978 custom?

 

[Cody]

Is there a difference between the 1972 custom and the 1978 custom?

Quite a bit. The ‘72 would have a mahogany neck, while the ‘78 would be maple.

Also, the ‘78 is of a rather short-lived Les Paul era that had a slightly different body shape, perhaps most noticeably a shallower cutaway that comes to a sharper point.

All things equal, I would much rather own a ‘72.