ES-335 with a wraptail bridge!

[captaincanada]

Don't know if you guys have seen this...

Here is the link:
http://www.themusiczoo.com/product/6286/Gibson-Custom-Shop-59-Wraparound-ES-335/

Here is the picture:

 

[blauserk]

Gibson must be offering that to make up for the goldtop-over-burst monstrosity (also through Music Zoo).

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173681

IMHO, nothing to dislike about that other than it's not 50 years old. Two great tastes that taste great together.

 

[latestarter]

There's my ultimate gigging guitar right there...call to the bank tomorrow, followed by let down and general depression for a week.

 

[Brown Recluse]

It's reminiscent of the 345 Buzz Feiten used with Paul Butterfield at Woodstock. You can see it at about 3 minutes and 40 seconds into this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j9iNV_e1Yw

 

[Litcrit]

It's reminiscent of the 345 Buzz Feiten used with Paul Butterfield at Woodstock. You can see it at about 3 minutes and 40 seconds into this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j9iNV_e1Yw

Cool clip and solo by Buzz...I only knew of his techie stuff, never heard him play. Nice tone and energy!

 

[OKGuitar]

Everyone who has owned a 3xx must be aware of how difficult these can be to intonate accurately. With the G string all the way back (and the saddle turned around) on many of mine, the ABR-1 can barely accommodate it. The 50's-60's ES-335s were designed for a wrapped G string and heavier gauge strings which intonate differently than the 10's most people like on a 335. In fact, I've had 335's that are slightly beyond the range of the travel on the bridge (there's a truss rod trick that sometimes works for that). I can't imagine how that wraptail version is going to intonate. Unless you're tone deaf and don't notice it.

 

[captaincanada]

There is more footage of that guitar in this clip as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pynfwtiVleE&NR=1

It doesn't look like there are any holes in the top where a tune-o-matic/stop tail would have been...:hmm

 

[DoubleBoogie]

Interesting....but CRAZY expensive!! $5399?!?!? :bigal

 

[PaulLaRue]

I agree with OKguitar, wraptails are the shit when it comes to intonation.
I don't give a damn if it looks cool or vintage,it doesn't work!
Give me an adjustable ABR anyday.

 

[bigsby'd]

Unless you're tone deaf and don't notice it.

Or you hear well enough to know that notes drift anyway if you're playing a fretted instrument, so you don't get too hung up on it. Just watch your tuner when you tune. Do you tune to the attack, or the decay, or in between? Whichever method you choose, that means that you're not perfectly in tune most of the time. Do you press down every string, on every fret, in every position, with the EXACT amount of force, using the EXACT surface area of the string?...because if you don't, (and you don't...nobody does) you're not in perfect tune. Close enough, is close enough. as long as its close. YMMV. Pianos don't tune up right either, but I only feel like getting beaten up for one kettle of fish today.
:salude:2cool:salude:2zone

 

[humbucking]

Or you hear well enough to know that notes drift anyway if you're playing a fretted instrument, so you don't get too hung up on it. Just watch your tuner when you tune. Do you tune to the attack, or the decay, or in between? Whichever method you choose, that means that you're not perfectly in tune most of the time. Do you press down every string, on every fret, in every position, with the EXACT amount of force, using the EXACT surface area of the string?...because if you don't, (and you don't...nobody does) you're not in perfect tune. Close enough, is close enough. as long as its close. YMMV. Pianos don't tune up right either, but I only feel like getting beaten up for one kettle of fish today.
:salude:2cool:salude:2zone

"close enough for rock & roll!"

 

[blauserk]

wraptails are the shit when it comes to intonation.

Urban dictionary: "the shit" = The best. The important part of it is without THE, an entirely different meaning applies. My teacher is shit = bad teacher. My teacher is THE shit = greatest teacher."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=the shit

I'm with Bigsby'd on this one. If the reason my playing sounds like crap is limitations on intonation, that's a good day for me. (And I've actually had good luck with intonation on wraptails.)

 

[bigsby'd]

Urban dictionary: "the shit" = The best. The important part of it is without THE, an entirely different meaning applies. My teacher is shit = bad teacher. My teacher is THE shit = greatest teacher."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=the shit

I'm with Bigsby'd on this one. If the reason my playing sounds like crap is limitations on intonation, that's a good day for me. (And I've actually had good luck with intonation on wraptails.)

Yeah, well we dig a 23.5" scale...what do we know?!:rofl

 

[OKGuitar]

If you're making compromises on intonation, you should have it set up by a pro. I don't use a tuner other than to get an "E"-the rest is harmonics and "beats". Then I do it again at the second fret and the fifth and the twelfth. With a lot of fiddling you can get it very close. If you tuned a piano getting every note spot on, it would sound like shit (not "The Shit"). Do a google search of "tempered tuning:" The G and B strings on a 335 are usually so far out that by the second fret (play an A chord after you've tuned so your E sounds good) its out by enough to sound awful. Perfect pitch runs in my family-I, fortunately, don't have it (it can be a bit of a curse according to my Mother and brothers who do have it) but I have good enough relative pitch to hear even the slightest dissonance. I'm one of those guys who is constantly tuning. I've had wraptails and have had nothing but trouble with them. YMMV, of course. If you think Gibsons are bad, play a Gretsch Country Gent with a bar bridge. It must have driven George batty.

 

[bigsby'd]

If you're making compromises on intonation, you should have it set up by a pro. I don't use a tuner other than to get an "E"-the rest is harmonics and "beats". Then I do it again at the second fret and the fifth and the twelfth. With a lot of fiddling you can get it very close. If you tuned a piano getting every note spot on, it would sound like shit (not "The Shit"). Do a google search of "tempered tuning:" The G and B strings on a 335 are usually so far out that by the second fret (play an A chord after you've tuned so your E sounds good) its out by enough to sound awful. Perfect pitch runs in my family-I, fortunately, don't have it (it can be a bit of a curse according to my Mother and brothers who do have it) but I have good enough relative pitch to hear even the slightest dissonance. I'm one of those guys who is constantly tuning. I've had wraptails and have had nothing but trouble with them. YMMV, of course. If you think Gibsons are bad, play a Gretsch Country Gent with a bar bridge. It must have driven George batty.

I understand everything you're saying. (I don't need to google tempered tuning, and I don't need to take my guitar to a pro...I am a pro, meaning that people pay me to restore their guitars, and set them up etc) The reason you're one of those guys that is constantly retuning is because, no matter how your intonation is set, your guitar will ALWAYS be slightly out. One can fight this, or shrug and live with it. For those of us that can shrug and live with it, wrap tails do the trick. For those that can't live with it, no amount of fiddling is going to get it perfect. The guitar neck vibrates when you play, and the heel is the fulcrum. What do you think that does to your scale-length? I realize everyone hears differently...I am really just responding to the notion that those of us that dig wraptails are "tonedeaf".

 

[StSpider]

Being a huge fan of wraps (as well as someone whos not too concerned with intonation - I love a vintage tele bridge as well) I look very favourably to this guitar.

Really cool.

 

[OKGuitar]

I am really just responding to the notion that those of us that dig wraptails are "tonedeaf".

That wasn't my intention at all. I just take issue with the notion that getting the intonation "close enough for rock and roll" is close enough. I just don't believe a wraptail is ideal for intonating a guitar-especially a 335. And if you tune each string dead on with a tuner, it won't even be close enough for rock and roll IMO. Tempered tuning is about compromises so small that you can't hear them-but the tuner can certainly see them (and tell you that your guitar is out of tune when it isn't).

 

[access]

I'm with Bigsby'd on this debate. I also make a living setting people's stuff up, and the 'perfect intonation' guy is the one who you can NEVER make happy no matter what you do.

I can spend as much time as you want with a strobe tuner and get it as perfect as it can be, but if you want a guitar to not intonate you will make it sound 'out'.

I've seen guys who's technique in grabbing the D chord too tight makes that chord alone sound out, so they complain and act like you don't know what you're doing.

hell, even how you set the guitar down on your workmat will have an affect on how the intonation plays out. Never use the neck rest otherwise everything will come out flat, but if you put a pad behind the body or lay it flat the pressure you apply backwards on the neck while playing makes it sound sharp.

Its enough to drive you crazy.

 

[Litcrit]

Sticklers for intonation need to have an adjusted nut, which just so happens to be Buzz Feiten's product...so we've come full circle.

I can live with most electric's intonation issues, it's old flat-top acoustics with belly-ing tops that ring 1/4 tone sharp by the time you're on the 7th fret (Fuggeddabout the octaves!) that drive me crazy...that's not close enough for ANY kind of music. If the low E is fretted, you're WAY out. I can't tell you how many good sounding old acoustics I've ditched for that reason...and it's probably the reason I prefer archtops: you can move the bridge any place you want!

 

[OKGuitar]

I'm with Bigsby'd on this debate. I also make a living setting people's stuff up, and the 'perfect intonation' guy is the one who you can NEVER make happy no matter what you do.

I can spend as much time as you want with a strobe tuner and get it as perfect as it can be, but if you want a guitar to not intonate you will make it sound 'out'.

I've seen guys who's technique in grabbing the D chord too tight makes that chord alone sound out, so they complain and act like you don't know what you're doing.

hell, even how you set the guitar down on your workmat will have an affect on how the intonation plays out. Never use the neck rest otherwise everything will come out flat, but if you put a pad behind the body or lay it flat the pressure you apply backwards on the neck while playing makes it sound sharp.

Its enough to drive you crazy.

I have my own solution to that as well. I'm not a guitar tech, so I generally don't do full setups. I do, however set my own intonation so the only one I can drive crazy is me...usually. I had a guy come in to play one of my guitars and he complained mightily about the intonation and I had just finished intonating the guitar that morning. I usually leave the room when someone tries out a guitar so when I came back and he complained, I asked him to show me. Turns out his technique was so poor that he was pulling the bass strings toward the treble side every time he played a note on the A and E strings-even on barre chords, he would yank the strings halfway out of position. I sympathize with you. There's no adjustment for the nut who's actually playing the thing. He lowballed me and left.