• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

ES-339 Serial Number Altered?

davekidd

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
4
I recently purchased Gibson ES-339. When I received it I quickly looked it over, restrung it & began playing it along with some of my other fave guitars. Fast forward a couple of months & as I was getting ready to restring it again, I noticed some irregularities on the back of the headstock.

One of the irregularities appears to be an error on my part, where an 'impression' appears to have resulted from a clip-on tuner being left on the guitar. The second irregularity is more concerning; it appears an "X" is 'formed' over much of the serial number. I don't believe it was caused by anything clipped to the guitar as none of my clip-on tuners have that attachment 'footprint.' I'm now wondering if I may have bought a refurbished or factory second guitar that was mistakenly sold off as new. I'm looking for feedback on what the "X" may indicate, if anything. I've also reached out to the retailer & to Gibson USA, hoping they may be able to give me some background on the serial number.

The retailer I purchased this from has, at least for me, been great to deal with in the past. I've bought multiple guitars, amps, etc. from them over the years & this is the first instance where something 'wonky' occurred. Only once before have I ever had to return anything (an amp with a power switch issue) & expect they'll be fair regarding this, whatever "this" is. lol

Thanks in advance for any & all feedback, it's much appreciated!

Dave
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2190 copy.jpeg
    IMG_2190 copy.jpeg
    986.2 KB · Views: 38

clayville

Active member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
5,736
Not much help here from a single photo. I'm assuming this is a Trans Ebony ES-339 with that black headstock. At first the serial number itself troubled me - I'm more familiar with the earlier "ME XXXXX" serial numbers from the Memphis Custom Shop era. But apparently ES-339's have used several different serial number styles over the years and I found one at Reverb that seems to be similar to yours: https://reverb.com/item/39171206-gibson-es-339-in-trans-ebony-231700006
My, er, impression is that the 'X' you think you're seeing is probably from the same clip-on tuner, or perhaps a Kyser-style capo. If you don't have any other reason to doubt the guitar, I'd just play on.
 

davekidd

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
4
Thanks for taking the time to review. And yes, you are correct that it's an ES-339 in translucent ebony.

After reviewing my clip-on tuners I was unable to see where any of them would leave the X-like witness marks, none of them would leave what is about a 1/16" wide mark. I even considered the possibility of multiple clip-on tuner 'mountings' creating the X & I just can't see that happening. Nothing else has been clipped to the headstock since I received the guitar.

I keep my home studio a bit dark. That, & at least for some of the time a clip-on tuner covering the serial number is likely why I hadn't notice the X sooner. I did receive photos of the guitar prior to purchasing it but going back to those there's poor clarity of the back-of-headstock photo (can't even read the serial number).

There were some minor issues when I first received & looked over the guitar (a tuner mounting crooked, sound hole edges finished poorly, etc.) but they evaporated from my mind once I started playing it (lol). I now have to wonder if in my glee at getting the guitar I missed the serial number being altered in some fashion due to it being a 'factory second' or something similar.

What does Gibson do with a guitar that doesn't meet their standards? For example, do they alter the serial number & maybe sell it at a discount? I know there's other manufactured items where something similar is done. I have reached out to Gibson USA directly & asked if they ship guitars with altered serial numbers, once they reply it should (hopefully) put my questions to bed. I just want to make sure I bought what I paid for & hope to prevent any issues with a prospective buyer at my estate sale (lol).

Once again, thanks for taking the time & providing feedback. And yes....I have been rehabilitated regarding my use of clip-on tuners. :cool:

Regards,
Dave
 

clayville

Active member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
5,736
My guess is the guitar may have picked up some indents when the finish was still quite new and soft, but who knows? That seems more likely to me than some sort of alteration to the serial number or a "factory second" indication - stamped numbers (and painted ones) can come out less than perfect and even (see your "Made in USA" stamping, for instance.) And hanging on a store wall hanger is a perilous life for a guitar before you get your hands on on it too...

On your f-hole finish issue: the black finished edges of my CS-356 f-holes looked slightly rough in a couple of small spots when I got it new in 2003. A slight tear-out in my solid wood top or in a layer of your plywood top are not uncommon - they're routing through several grain orientations to make that ornate shape and the blades aren't always perfectly sharp. A careful minute or two with a permanent black felt-tip marker took care of that visually for me and I haven't worried about it since. Good luck - and enjoy!
 

davekidd

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
4
The guitar never hung in a store but your guess at how it picked up the "indents" is as logical as any. I'm now working with customer service of the retailer in asking Gibson USA if they might alter a serial number similarly. If Gibson comes back & says "we'd never ship that" then I'm good & will move along....after printing that out & throwing it in the case. lol

For the poorly finished sound holes I found a product at StewMac that should work nicely. https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-too...nts-and-stains/colortone-touch-up-marker.html

For the crooked low E string tuner I'll probably have to reset the screw. Not a huge deal but these are not the types of things you'd expect to see from a 'premium' guitar manufacturer. I own 3 other Gibsons, all received in nearly flawless condition, though this is my first Gibson semi-hollow body. I guess blame solid body Gibson's as well as Gretsch & PRS guitars made in Korea if my standards are too high. lol

On a brighter note, I love how the guitar plays (otherwise I'd have sent it back when I first inspected it). I'd probably be less happy if the guitar arrived in flawless condition but played like crap. lol

Thanks for the info & feedback, it's much appreciated!
 

davekidd

New member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
4
Another photo.....I have to decrease the file size to post photos so it does compromise the clarity a bit. It just look conspicuous that the mysterious X is located where it is.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2212.JPG
    IMG_2212.JPG
    943.6 KB · Views: 12
Top