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Fender gets into vintage sales via Reverb

sonar

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Jan 10, 2003
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3,589
Gotta love $35k guitars with shims.

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opdev

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Joined
May 16, 2002
Messages
554
I got .a picture of the "cert" and have to say it's kinda lame.

Plus, they don't even know how long they have had it and its not from any formal Fender archive. Seems like just some clean guitars (no provenance) and no historical significance.
 

sonar

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Jan 10, 2003
Messages
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What's wrong with the shim? It's a common Fender shim. :wah

Nothing "wrong."

But maybe it lowers the mystique of vintage Fender down a notch?

Maybe modern technology has improved an aspect of the manufacturing process with the bolt-on neck guitar? Not saying advances in technology has completely eradicated the neck shim, but they are less common than they used to be even 20 years ago.

I still bought my vintage Fenders knowing that they might have shims. I love vintage gear, but this pic might show that old guitars are not necessarily superior instruments.
 

akstrat61

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Feb 16, 2004
Messages
1,814
One might questioon why they are selling these in the first place?:hank
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
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Aug 2, 2001
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42,567
Nothing "wrong."

But maybe it lowers the mystique of vintage Fender down a notch?

Maybe modern technology has improved an aspect of the manufacturing process with the bolt-on neck guitar? Not saying advances in technology has completely eradicated the neck shim, but they are less common than they used to be even 20 years ago.

I still bought my vintage Fenders knowing that they might have shims. I love vintage gear, but this pic might show that old guitars are not necessarily superior instruments.

Since this was common on vintage [pre-72 ] Strats, I don't see how it can possibly effect mystique, except to newbies who just don't know. I've dealt with them over 45 years and never gave them a second thought.
In 1972 Fender started using their tilt neck adjustment, which negates the need for shims, as it doe it mechanically. :ganz
 

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,527
Although there was 100% no question more leeway in terms of the hand finishing & tooling methods in the first couple decades of Fender I don't think the shim means much. I still shim for preference on the new guitars, it can go a long way in putting the saddles/string height off the body where you want them.


What's "quality" mean in a Fender anyways? It sounds good and it's not screwed up?


String alignment a little off? Loosen the 4 bolts a turn, align neck, tighten. Problem solved.

Neck pitch too high/low? Shim the bastard. Problem solved.

Intonation? Fully adjustable through a large range of string gauges.

String height? Fully adjustable.

So, all your big angles right there are dummy proof, just cut'em flat.

Even the "neck pocket" comments you always see in terms of people touting "quality" on the internet are ill-informed, there's supposed to be some tolerance in the pocket because the the maple will shrink/swell differently than the ash/alder/etc. A tight neck pocket usully means a cracked neck pocket.



So, that last thing I want on a Fender style bolt-on guitar is some feller/builder touting his superior attention to angles, alchemy, and **** like that. It's two totally adjustable/modable dummy proof planks and whey they pair well they fair well.
 

sonar

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Jan 10, 2003
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Since this was common on vintage [pre-72 ] Strats, I don't see how it can possibly effect mystique, except to newbies who just don't know. I've dealt with them over 45 years and never gave them a second thought.
In 1972 Fender started using their tilt neck adjustment, which negates the need for shims, as it doe it mechanically. :ganz

Hey Tom,

I'll admit I was a little surprised the first time I saw a shim on a Mary Kay my former luthier was working on for another customer.

As a teenager I had a friend that worked at Washburn setting up their "import" guitars. (If anybody remembers this was around the time the Feds raided Washburn for fraudulently marking guitars as "Made in USA.") Most (if not all) had shims, which Washburn employees would joke about. Many of these models were pretty crummy guitars with or without a shim, but the association with shims and crappy guitars stuck in my mind. A few years later when I became interested in pre-CBS Fender I was taken aback when I saw a shim on an extremely desirable Strat. My luthier talked me down, but for me some of the mystique was lost that day and things were put into perspective. Even the Holy Grail has imperfections.

I'm not surprised my original snarky comment and follow up has gotten a response or two (the vintage folk are an easy dig :)) although my original comment was meant to be a little more innocuous than it probably reads. Tom, you never seem to take the conversation as an attack, so hopefully I didn't offend you.

I will stand by my comment(s) about modern manufacturing techniques improving elements of the mass produced guitar. Builders like PRS and Ernie Ball Musicman make guitars using modern day technology that rival, and exceed in the case of attaching a bolt-on neck to a guitar body, many of the best vintage guitars when it comes to build technique on a production line level.
 

Rich R

In the Zone/Backstage Pass
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
4,998
I saw that stuff on Reverb yesterday, and it just seems completely dingy to me. In fact, I was really turned off--whole thing just seemed completely unappealing. The fact is that the vintage market has been well-established for decades, with essentially three cohorts: 1) A (very) few trusted dealers 2) some high-profile "free agents", and by far the largest, 3) the community of player/collectors, who are constantly buying and selling among themselves.

As a decades-long participant in #3, I don't need some bullshit "Fender" imprimatur to help me make decisions. There's no evidence that they know anymore about these guitars than anyone else. I also found their pricing aggressive and off-putting.

No thanks.:pisd
 

Dishimyuh

Active member
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,199
I saw that stuff on Reverb yesterday, and it just seems completely dingy to me. In fact, I was really turned off--whole thing just seemed completely unappealing. The fact is that the vintage market has been well-established for decades, with essentially three cohorts: 1) A (very) few trusted dealers 2) some high-profile "free agents", and by far the largest, 3) the community of player/collectors, who are constantly buying and selling among themselves.

As a decades-long participant in #3, I don't need some bullshit "Fender" imprimatur to help me make decisions. There's no evidence that they know anymore about these guitars than anyone else. I also found their pricing aggressive and off-putting.

No thanks.:pisd

AMEN!
 

toneville

New member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
18

The use of shims means questionable quality at Fender?
Then It would be fair to say the same thing about Gibson sanding off the bottom of ABR-1 Tune-a-matic bridges to get the action low enough on early ES 335, 345, etc. guitars with shallow neck sets.
That is even worse! Those can go for just as much or more $ and are flawed. Just stamp a "2" on its headstock and trrow them in the bargain bin. Who would want a poorly designed guitar like that.
Just about anybody who can appreciate great instruments, that's who! People made these and people don't always get everything right on the first try but when there is so much that is so right the little things become "quaint" in a way like a mole on a beutiful woman. Remember the old line- "I wouldn't kick her out of bed."
Shims on a Fender are the equivalent to adjustable tie rod ends on a car. You use them to set the alignment and to get the best performance out of them.



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RemediosSharrock

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Dec 11, 2019
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5
I want one but yes, prices are high. However, with the Fender Certification, I can dare to buy. Maybe in coming years.
 
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