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Help W/ Neck Pickup Clarity

Trennasol

Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
895
Ok, I've tried all of the suggestions I've read in various places on this forum to achieve better clarity out of the neck pickup on my 07 R9, and still basically have what I'd consider 'muddy/bassy' tone. I'm at my wits end and seeking further advise.

The pup in question is a Throbak SLE 101 Ltd. I've had it in my R9 since 2009. The guitar is wired 50's style with RS pots and Vitamin Q caps. .015 in the neck. .022 on the bridge. I've lowered the pickup. Raised it. Raised it on the high E side and lowered the low E side. Adjusted my amp knobs. Tried different brands/gauges of strings. I even tried different guitar cables and it still sounds like someone threw a blanket on the amp when I go to the neck position. Oddly enough, the middle position sounds really good. But I'm frustrated that I've got a guitar that gives me an option of 3 pickup selections and I can only use 2 of them. All that said the bridge pup sounds awesome.

What can I replace the neck pup with that will play well with the existing bridge pup but give me more clarity? I hate to say this but the Custom Bucker in my CC15 kills the Throbak in the clarity department in the neck position. Any suggestions?
 

Mr. Papa

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Jan 14, 2002
Messages
1,418
Hey, Roanoke,
Former Grandin Court resident here.
I think the age old question about the muddy neck pickup has been covered extensively here, as I would imagine you have already seen. One idea is to lower the pickup and raise the poles, which works a little bit. The other is to go to modern wiring vs. '50s but that only works in certain circumstances. A treble bleed circuit also helps in certain circumstances. I hardly even touch my neck tone control, and have occasionally substituted in a midrange cut knob for the neck pickup. I have gotten more clarity that way, as opposed to accentuating the treble which has it's own unintended consequences.
The more dramatic approach is a different pickup like a Fralin P-92, a Gibson P-94, a DiMarzio Eric Johnson or HB From Hell, or the like. I've also heard the Duncan Jazz suggested (not my preference, personally) and the Lollar Imperial.
 

Trennasol

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Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
895
Thank you Former Roanoke. :). Good suggestions to start with. Would love to see if anyone else has more ideas to add.
 

slammintone

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Jul 19, 2001
Messages
2,003
Trennasol, having seen a few of your YouTube clips I gotta say, I don't know what you're talking about! They sounds you get from your Les Pauls and amps is fantastic. However, I did have that same set of pickups in an R7 and like you I thought the neck pickup needed a bit of more clarity. To that end I emailed Jon from Throbak and had him send me a set of unoriented A5 magnets which I installed and which really helped give both pickups a tighter low end, a nice dry woody midrange and clear but not harsh highs.
 

FretsAlot

New member
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Jan 22, 2003
Messages
931
Trennasol,

I used to have that same problem with any LP I played. From info Big Al shared with me/the forum, about 10-11 years ago, I started EQ'ing my amp using only the neck pickup. My results were better, but still mushier, bassier than I wanted. I was EQ'ing the amp with the neck p/u on 10 & 10 (V&T). Now, I'm playing a 50w plexi clone and a few months ago I decided to revise my approach. As you may know the TMB controls on a plexi are all 'cut' meaning when they are on '10' they are full, and just cut T,M or B as you roll them back. So, the modification I've made to my tone set-up is run the neck pickup as hot as I can before it gets mushy & bassy, and set up my TMB,P, and Vols for the tone I want, with an eye towards running my TMB with as much of each as I can... (taking a breath). I end up getting good clarity on my neck pickup at about "8'ish" on the Vol. With good clank (middle position) and good cut (bridge) in the other places. If I twist up more vol on my neck pickup now, it just gets a little bluesier. With this set-up, I finally have the clarity I was looking for to understand when guys say they use their neck pickup for some leadwork - I get it now, too. I have now gone back & forth a bit adjusting my pickup & pole piece heights as well as tweaking my plexi settings. My tone of choice is low to medium gain. An added bonus is I now can get more tones like how I can change the tone on just the bridge pickup by the balance of Vol & Tone on that one pickup. I'm playing an '04 R7 with Wolfetone DrV's & 500K+ pots with a .015(N) and .022(Br) russian PIO caps

Hope you find something in there that helps,

Fretsalot/Scott
 

tdarian

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Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,575
My '07 R6 has Brass tailpiece studs, my 2011 R7 has steel. I tried Brass TP Studs on the R7 and it became too dark, especially on the neck p/u. Since your R9 is an '07 does it have the stock Brass TP Studs? They'd be non magnetic. If so, replacing them with Steel TP Studs might shift the voice of your guitar towards the brighter a little bit. Among the Steel TP Studs I tried the RetroSpec long steel ones seemed to make my R7 a little brighter than others so maybe worth a shot if you have not tried this already.
 

Trennasol

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Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
895
Thank you all for the additional suggestions. Some good ideas above that I will be following up on. Probably the cheapest and easiest thing to try would be the TP studs as mine are brass. As well as re-adjusting my amps eq. Then I'll look into a magnet swap. Thanks again for the suggestions.
 

Classic

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Dec 6, 2004
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1,624
following on from what tdarian has said, get the Retrospec long steel studs and brass bridge thumbwheels. You presumably want to avoid is having a usable neck pickup and a bridge pickup that's way too bright? Adding these together will both brighten the guitar and maintain a good balance between the neck and bridge pickups.
 

Trennasol

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Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
895
following on from what tdarian has said, get the Retrospec long steel studs and brass bridge thumbwheels. You presumably want to avoid is having a usable neck pickup and a bridge pickup that's way too bright? Adding these together will both brighten the guitar and maintain a good balance between the neck and bridge pickups.

Excellent advice. I'll probably do just that. I don't want a bright bridge pickup as I love what I've got going on in that position.
 

FretsAlot

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Jan 22, 2003
Messages
931
Trennasol,

My experiences have shown that raising the pickup (bobbins) increases what I call 'body' or 'girth' along with some break-up. Lowering the pickup decreases those qualities; and...

Raising the pole-pieces up increases string clarity; lowering decreases clarity/sharpness.

I've been paying attention to photos and guitars that I've tried in stores that I've thought were well set-up. I've found that the pole-piece profile from Low E to High E looks something like this where each number represents approximate turns out from flush

1(E) - 1.5(A) - 2(D) - 2/1.5(G) - .5(B) -- 2/1.5(E)

(note: screw slots are at about 45* angle to the overhead string).

One more comment - I like .010-.046 strings pure nickel wounds (EB Rock & Rollers). I also like them with quite a bit of tension in them, so I don't top-wrap the tailpiece - I string normally, and have the tailpiece fairly low. I've also spent some time tuning that as it has some effect on clarity & tone, as well, I find. This is in fairly recent recognition that I'm very firm picker/strummer (1.0 Claytons). I'm not a string-breaking-strummer, but play... emphatically. I think softer string tension can introduce a bit of... flub... atleast for my picking style...

So, I say... 'know thy self'... make your adjustments in accordance to your own ears & style.

Fretsalot/Scott
 
Last edited:

J.D.

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Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
10,030
Ok, I've tried all of the suggestions I've read in various places on this forum to achieve better clarity out of the neck pickup on my 07 R9, and still basically have what I'd consider 'muddy/bassy' tone. I'm at my wits end and seeking further advise.

The pup in question is a Throbak SLE 101 Ltd. I've had it in my R9 since 2009. The guitar is wired 50's style with RS pots and Vitamin Q caps. .015 in the neck. .022 on the bridge. I've lowered the pickup. Raised it. Raised it on the high E side and lowered the low E side. Adjusted my amp knobs. Tried different brands/gauges of strings. I even tried different guitar cables and it still sounds like someone threw a blanket on the amp when I go to the neck position. Oddly enough, the middle position sounds really good. But I'm frustrated that I've got a guitar that gives me an option of 3 pickup selections and I can only use 2 of them. All that said the bridge pup sounds awesome.

What can I replace the neck pup with that will play well with the existing bridge pup but give me more clarity? I hate to say this but the Custom Bucker in my CC15 kills the Throbak in the clarity department in the neck position. Any suggestions?

Two suggestions:

1. Re-charge the bar magnet or replace with higher gauss magnet.
2. Install a variation of a "bright cap" (.001uF cap with or w/out resistor) across neck vol pot lugs.

Either/both will be audibly "brighter".
 

BIG Dave

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Aug 18, 2001
Messages
2,421
What amp are you using? Which speakers? Open back or closed back cab? Tubes? Cables? The list goes on and on...
 

Gold Tone

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Apr 2, 2002
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6,825
Has anyone mentioned pots? Confirm that the neck volume pot measures over 500k and better up around 520k

A pot reading even in the high 400's (480 or so) will muddy up the pickup noticeably
 

jwalker

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Dec 10, 2004
Messages
2,592
A ThroBak Illinois made unoriented A5 in the neck position I think will get you the clarity you are after. Long unoriented A5 has about the same strength as Long A2 and will work great with the A2 in the bridge pup. The difference in inductance between A5 and A2 will give unoriented A5 more low end clarity and mids than A2 in the neck pup. Give me a call or send me an email. I'm happy to do the magnet swap at no charge if you want to pay return shipping. Or if you want to do the swap I'm happy to exchange your long A2 magnet for a long illinois unoriented A5 magnet.

Jon
www.throbak.com
 
Last edited:

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
Good suggestions Jon. I didn't realize that using an UO A-5 neck would have any effect on an A-2 bridge in regards to inductance. Is this in effect even using just the neck pickup alone on it's own?
 

Trennasol

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Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
895
A ThroBak Illinois made unoriented A5 in the neck position I think will get you the clarity you are after. Long unoriented A5 has about the same strength as Long A2 and will work great with the A2 in the bridge pup. The difference in inductance between A5 and A2 will give unoriented A5 more low end clarity and mids than A2 in the neck pup. Give me a call or send me an email. I'm happy to do the magnet swap at no charge if you want to pay return shipping. Or if you want to do the swap I'm happy to exchange your long A2 magnet for a long illinois unoriented A5 magnet.

Jon
www.theobak.com

Jon, thank you for the post. I'll send you an email today or tomorrow.
Thanks, Trina.
 

Big Al

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
14,537
You can't add clarity.

That is the reason I use my amps controls to get the most from my set up. This is a tricky subject and borders on the Sacred. It is like Religion to some.

Here is what you do, and your old Uncle Al will set you on a path to tone heaven.

Whenever I plug into a strange amp, or am seeking to get an all around useful tone I employ my ears and do not look at the numbers. Remember, once set you cannot add clarity. So, plug in the guitar, switch on the neck pickup and adjust the amp to get the best clear and bright tone you can. Not the brightest, screeching tone, but rather, the type of clear, tight neck pickup tone you want.

I set mine up so that it sings and still retains clarity. It can be a little grindy, but what you want is the brightest, clearest overdriven tone you expect on using. Then, lower the volume on the neck pickup. Does it clean up well? Try lowering the tone pot a bit. With careful use of the tone and volume controls on the neck pickup you should be able to get ALL the neck tones you expect, having already set the amp for the brightest, tightest tone.

Now, the problem is the bridge pickup will be too bright. Thin and screechy. YUCK!
Again the tone and volume controls on the guitar will save the day. You can sculpt your tone. I almost always have the tone dropped on my bridge pickup, right to where it sounds right. You can still go lower for more woman tone and roll up to make a very precise point! Same with volume.

The rule for me is, the best tone for my neck pickup will always make for an overly bright bridge pickup. USE THEM CONTROLS!!! This works for all the amps and guitars I use with two or more pickups.
 

FretsAlot

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Jan 22, 2003
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931
Big Al,

thanks for writing that. Based on simpler advice you offered to me/the forum 10-11 years ago, I've arrived at the same approach for matching a guitar & amp. I used to fear an unknown guitar and/or amp. Now, using that technique I enjoy 'the hunt' for what a pairing might offer up.

:salude

Fretsalot/Scott
 

Ad_02Std

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Apr 12, 2005
Messages
5,055
Yeah, I do it the same way as Big Al. Set up the amp to fit my neck pickup and then turn my bridge pickup tone control down. It's actually really useful to have all that extra cut on tap should you need it.
 

chuckNC

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Apr 24, 2012
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+3. Unless you're running a stereo guitar so each pickup gets it's own special amp or channel, you will want to do the balancing act Al describes. When you set your amp up for the bridge pickup, it's easy to get carried away with bass. You can run the amp's bass up a good bit and it just makes the bridge pickup sound more ballsy......good thing, right? But large amounts of bass turn neck pickup tones to mud. Set up like Al describes and your amp will probably have the volume higher and the bass lower than what you have been running. That's not bad -- if you're going to work the guitar's controls as you play.

As a general rule, you'll probably tend to run with:

The bridge volume higher than the neck volume.

The neck tone higher than bridge tone.

And, FWIW, what sounds good when playing alone may not sound right in a band setting. The amp's controls are your friend.
 
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