Honor killings??!!!

[Adwex]

Glad I'm not a Muslim woman.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...for_muslim_women_a_deadly_defiance/?page=full

Those 2 Florida teens who beat and killed the homeless man were monsters, but at least the man they killed was a stranger, I doubt they would've killed a family member.

 

[ShawnRT]

RRRY before you indict an entire religion why dont you look back even 100 years into the history of your own. Given the relative age differences of Christianity and Islam, Islam seems pretty much on par with where Christianity was at during this stage of its development. If the comparison were completely equitable, this is about the time that Islam would be going through their own Spanish Inquisition, burn every heretic at the stake phase. I believe Pope Urban VIII believed he was upholding the honor of the Christian faith when he murdered Galilieo through imprisoning an elderly and ill old man for having the audactity to claim the earth revolved around the sun. Talk about religious hubris. Shall I list hundreds of other men and women killed by the Christian church in the name of defending its honor?

What religion isn't a cult of control? The entire purpose is to get individuals to subscribe to a set of beliefs and consequently "control" their behavior. Whether this is good or bad is up to the individual.

Please refrain from attacking an entire system of belief (which I have to believe given your past comments that you know decidedly little about) and all of its practitioners. You come across as extremely xenophobic and bigoted.

 

[Wilko]

Glad you said IT ShawnRT. You are much more eloquent than I.

 

[Brownsound]

RRRY before you indict an entire religion why dont you look back even 100 years into the history of your own. Given the relative age differences of Christianity and Islam, Islam seems pretty much on par with where Christianity was at during this stage of its development. If the comparison were completely equitable, this is about the time that Islam would be going through their own Spanish Inquisition, burn every heretic at the stake phase. I believe Pope Urban VIII believed he was upholding the honor of the Christian faith when he murdered Galilieo through imprisoning an elderly and ill old man for having the audactity to claim the earth revolved around the sun. Talk about religious hubris. Shall I list hundreds of other men and women killed by the Christian church in the name of defending its honor?

What religion isn't a cult of control? The entire purpose is to get individuals to subscribe to a set of beliefs and consequently "control" their behavior. Whether this is good or bad is up to the individual.

Please refrain from attacking an entire system of belief (which I have to believe given your past comments that you know decidedly little about) and all of its practitioners. You come across as extremely xenophobic and bigoted.

....but we certainly dont condone or ignore this behavior right?

 

[BadAssBill]

According to the International Institute of Strategic Studies, 32 armed conflicts were underway in 2000; more than two thirds involved Muslims. Yet Muslims are only about one fifth of the world’s population.
I can't really comment on what happened in the days of Gallileo, and I don't mean to make a blanket statement, but simple observations would let you "see the light" of todays muslim culture. One of my best friends is Muslim from Africa. Great guy who is all about peace, working hard, and making friends. You certainly can't blanket Muslims any more than you can lump Christians with the psychobable coming from the extreem right. However the psychobable, while unfriendly, does not send people to blow themselves up on a regular basis. Here again, the nut blowing up abortion clinics would prove otherwise, but as a whole.
I know every generation thinks the world is going to hell in a handbasket. But as the world gets "smaller"...it really doesn't seem like such a nice place.

 

[Adwex]

Did you hear about the Muslim man who discovered his daughter had an extra-marital affair? He killed his remaining daughters to prevent them from doing the same thing in the future. He did it in the name of "honor". :bug

 

[ShawnRT]

....but we certainly dont condone or ignore this behavior right?

Well I don't wish to condone it or ignore it, but I refuse to speak for thousands of people (be they Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Taoist, Shintoist, or Zoroastrians, etc...).

Obviously the killing of that woman was incredibly wrong and sad, but to say that this is a part of the belief system of every Muslim, is obtuse to say the least.

 

[ShawnRT]

Just as when Christianity was historically the most expansive and heavily proslytized religion it also was at the center of the most armed conflicts. In order to understand the problems of today and craft solutions we must look to the past for answers. The most important lesson to be learned from our own mistakes in western culture is to keep a strict line of seperation between political action and religious dogma. It took Western society hundreds of years to learn those lessons (and we are still fighting through it), I'm afraid that Islamic culture is stuck right in the middle of that lesson. One can only hope that those zealous idealogues using religion to further their own political power are replaced by those with the best intrests of the citizens as a motivating force. I also hope that the dogma represented as education in many of those countries is replaced with an honest curriculum of science, math, history, art and music ASAP!!

 

[Wisertime]

Satan works in strange ways. Doesn't he?

 

[Adwex]

Satan works in strange ways. Doesn't he?

If he exists, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Rayvyn]

RRRY before you indict an entire religion why dont you look back even 100 years into the history of your own. Given the relative age differences of Christianity and Islam, Islam seems pretty much on par with where Christianity was at during this stage of its development. If the comparison were completely equitable, this is about the time that Islam would be going through their own Spanish Inquisition, burn every heretic at the stake phase. I believe Pope Urban VIII believed he was upholding the honor of the Christian faith when he murdered Galilieo through imprisoning an elderly and ill old man for having the audactity to claim the earth revolved around the sun. Talk about religious hubris. Shall I list hundreds of other men and women killed by the Christian church in the name of defending its honor?

What religion isn't a cult of control? The entire purpose is to get individuals to subscribe to a set of beliefs and consequently "control" their behavior. Whether this is good or bad is up to the individual.

Please refrain from attacking an entire system of belief (which I have to believe given your past comments that you know decidedly little about) and all of its practitioners. You come across as extremely xenophobic and bigoted.

Finding any measure of merit in this is absolutely ridiculous... Knowledge is cumulative and in that it is utterly ridiculous to say that because of a religion's age it can be a thousand years removed from the rest of the world we all know in 2006... If this happened in your state and you sat on the jury you would not find it understandable regardless of the belief system that set it in motion... We all have our beliefs and we all have our eccentricities but this is neither... This is radical Islam and they are collectively filthy animals bent on dragging everyone and everything based on a psychotic interpretation of the quran... Political correctness might have its place in tolerance and understanding but when you find any sense of understanding with these fucking nit wits you better take a close look at how important being politically correct really is...

Long before there were any religions we concluded, stood and chose... Regardless of who is right and wrong, when you no longer stand on either side of an issue such as this, what have you become?? Me, I'd rather be a foolish bigot defending the defenseless than I would being someone who found merit in killing a young mother in the name of any religion or any sense of pride for my or any other family... If it was our past it was one of the many horrible mistakes man has made along the way but being that we all have access and benefit to these lessons, no human has to right to claim ignorance now...

 

[ShawnRT]

Finding any measure of merit in this is absolutely ridiculous... Knowledge is cumulative and in that it is utterly ridiculous to say that because of a religion's age it can be a thousand years removed from the rest of the world we all know in 2006... If this happened in your state and you sat on the jury you would not find it understandable regardless of the belief system that set it in motion... We all have our beliefs and we all have our eccentricities but this is neither... This is radical Islam and they are collectively filthy animals bent on dragging everyone and everything based on a psychotic interpretation of the quran... Political correctness might have its place in tolerance and understanding but when you find any sense of understanding with these fucking nit wits you better take a close look at how important being politically correct really is...

Long before there were any religions we concluded, stood and chose... Regardless of who is right and wrong, when you no longer stand on either side of an issue such as this, what have you become?? Me, I'd rather be a foolish bigot defending the defenseless than I would being someone who found merit in killing a young mother in the name of any religion or any sense of pride for my or any other family... If it was our past it was one of the many horrible mistakes man has made along the way but being that we all have access and benefit to these lessons, no human has to right to claim ignorance now...

Get off your fucking high horse. Did I say I found "merit" in killing a young woman? No I absolutely did not. Before you launch into a misguided tirade impugning my morality, read the fuck what I write and don't put words in my mouth.

I said I found no sense in casting a blanket indictment over a whole group of people because of the actions of a group of individuals. I could find and cite examples of contemporary atrocities committed by Christians and use that to impugn all Christians as depraved animals lacking morality, but that would be illogical and short sighted, not to mention incorrect.

If being politically correct means treating people as individuals and not judging them in groups of millions then paint me as politcally correct. If you had read my post asking us to learn lessons from the mistakes of the past and asking to change the zealous theocratic society of some Muslim states then you might find a sliver of similarity to your own statements in the concluding sentences to the quote above.

My post was only in response to the blanket criticism of Islam and Muslim culture. It was not a defense of what happened to that young woman. To twist my words to suit your political bent is the worst kind of straw man logical fallacy, not to mention totally ridiculous and uncalled for.

 

[ShawnRT]

And if you really, honestly believe that these 'honor killings' are representative of the beliefs of every Muslim..... well then to use your own debate tactics against you, I think this sums it up nicely:

Me, I'd rather be a foolish bigot

 

[hank]

.................... we need a Moderator here, please.

 

[Brownsound]

Well I don't wish to condone it or ignore it, but I refuse to speak for thousands of people (be they Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Taoist, Shintoist, or Zoroastrians, etc...).

Obviously the killing of that woman was incredibly wrong and sad, but to say that this is a part of the belief system of every Muslim, is obtuse to say the least.

Do we know for sure that its not part of a pariticular sect or could it be one of those rarely spoken about parts of the religion?

I mean Im not saying that you were infering that the Spanish Inquisition was a representative of the Christian faith anymore than honor killings could be part of the entire Muslim faith.

 

[ShawnRT]

.................... we need a Moderator here, please.

Sorry Hank, something about blanket cultural hatred and the implication that I find "merit" in the killing of an innocent young women really irks me

 

[Buffaloe]

.................... we need a Moderator here, please.

Oh come on Hank, that was a good exchange!

 

[ShawnRT]

Do we know for sure that its not part of a pariticular sect or could it be one of those rarely spoken about parts of the religion?

I mean Im not saying that you were infering that the Spanish Inquisition was a representative of the Christian faith anymore than honor killings could be part of the entire Muslim faith.

Could be a cult belief or part of some sect. Every major religion has sects that subscribe to totally immoral acts. My point is that this kind of crazy headline cannot be used to attack a culture of millions of people.

Like it or not, there are a lot of good, honest muslim men women and children out there that just do their best to get through the day like all of us. We need to stop judging each other in terms of these large groups. We need to stop judging the whole by the actions of the loony minority. The weapons are too powerful and the stakes too high to have the 8th Crusade or WWIII. We need to start understanding other cultures and trying to get along with each other here.

I realize that my own reaction to the misinterpretation of my argument is an example of the exact opposite kind of behavior than what is necessary. For that I apologize. I do stand by my defense of my percieved 'politcal correctness' though.

 

[Rayvyn]

Get off your fucking high horse. Did I say I found "merit" in killing a young woman? No I absolutely did not. Before you launch into a misguided tirade impugning my morality, read the fuck what I write and don't put words in my mouth.

I said I found no sense in casting a blanket indictment over a whole group of people because of the actions of a group of individuals. I could find and cite examples of contemporary atrocities committed by Christians and use that to impugn all Christians as depraved animals lacking morality, but that would be illogical and short sighted, not to mention incorrect.

If being politically correct means treating people as individuals and not judging them in groups of millions then paint me as politcally correct. If you had read my post asking us to learn lessons from the mistakes of the past and asking to change the zealous theocratic society of some Muslim states then you might find a sliver of similarity to your own statements in the concluding sentences to the quote above.

My post was only in response to the blanket criticism of Islam and Muslim culture. It was not a defense of what happened to that young woman. To twist my words to suit your political bent is the worst kind of straw man logical fallacy, not to mention totally ridiculous and uncalled for.

Saying it is a deplorable act based on psychotic principals and/or plain murder would have been sufficient to say what you said was your intent was... Comparing radical Islam to past failures in Christianity implies that there is some deeper meaning or some other manner by which we should measure these or any other acts today... Radical Islam is a filthy excuse for a religion and serves no purpose other than maintaining control of animals in a barbarous land... In modern day society it is out of place, out of time and has little or nothing to do with mainstream Islamic beliefs...

As for your personal attack... I ride no high horse but nevertheless, I can read...

 

[Hudpucker]

Ah, but the original poster whose remarks to which ShawnRT responded made no distinction between 'Radical' Islam and Islam in general; he simply indicted ALL of Islam. THAT is utterly offensive as well as ignorant.