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How Can Wood Effect Tone?

Injam

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Oct 15, 2021
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88
After watching this video
I’m trying to figure out how the wood of a guitar effects tone. If the steel strings that are vibrating above a magnet that has copper wire wrapped around it and that induces an alternating current. That current is what gets amplified. It seems to me that the wood of the guitar has no effect. I believe Leo Fender believe this, because he used ash only because it was cheap. Then he switch to alder because it was even cheaper.
 

jrgtr42

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Mar 24, 2005
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The wood of a guitar will absorb frequencies differently depending on it's hardness. This will then change the vibration characteristics of the strings as they vibrate over the poles of the pickups. Maple is harder than most other woods, so it will be a brighter sound, mahogany accentuates the midrange frequencies. So combine then as in a Les Paul, gives it that distinctive tone. For a good comparison, play a Fender Strat with a Rosewood fretboard, then play another with Maple. Of course amp etc all identically set. Then, if you can, play an Ash Strat (or Tele,) versus a Basswood or Alder one. In this case, just make sure the fretboard is the same. Again you'll hear a difference.
 

Injam

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Oct 15, 2021
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The wood of a guitar will absorb frequencies differently depending on it's hardness. This will then change the vibration characteristics of the strings as they vibrate over the poles of the pickups. Maple is harder than most other woods, so it will be a brighter sound, mahogany accentuates the midrange frequencies. So combine then as in a Les Paul, gives it that distinctive tone. For a good comparison, play a Fender Strat with a Rosewood fretboard, then play another with Maple. Of course amp etc all identically set. Then, if you can, play an Ash Strat (or Tele,) versus a Basswood or Alder one. In this case, just make sure the fretboard is the same. Again you'll hear a difference.
Has this been observed scientifically?
 

brandtkronholm

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Has this been observed scientifically?
A proper scientific, peer-reviewed, and published study specifically on the affect of wood species on the tone of an electric guitar probably doesn't exist.
Why?
Probably because not so many people are interested in such a study. The results would be inconsequential.

However, there's this: It doesn't matter. (2012.)
But this is a non-scientific, unpublished, unreviewed study conducted over a few months by one undergraduate student. (Possibly as a senior/capstone project.)
Here's another from 2016: Electric Guitar Thesis (Texas A&M).
Here's a portion of the abstract from the 2016 undergraduate study:
"The maple had more harmonic content than the mahogany for the low E string, while the opposite was true for the D string. The timbre of the high E string was similar for both woods, as the maple had more amplitude for the even harmonics except the 10th, while the mahogany had more amplitude for the odd harmonics. Overall the differences in the harmonics for the high E string present in each wood evened each other out. The difference in timbres for each wood depends on the string being analyzed. On average there is not a brighter or warmer wood; each one is simply different, and it varies from string to string."

The electric guitar luthiers have had several decades to experiment with different woods and the results are what the market will bear.

However, there is an abundance of scientific literature on the many properties of wood.
Chapter 4: Mechanical Properties of Wood
These studies are of great value and many people are very interested in them.
Feel free to apply them to the production of musical instruments. One non-scientific guess is as good as any another.
Strength Properties Wood for Practical Applications
There are MANY more scientific surveys like this available.

What jrgtr42 said in post #2 is right on the money.

Parker Fly: 1993-2016
Steinberger: some wood, graphite, and carbon fiber...
 

LeonC

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Aug 30, 2002
Messages
799
If you think that within a given specification (e.g., '59 historic Les Pauls made in June of 2019) all guitars made to that spec sound identical, then wood (and other non-electrical factors) certainly doesn't make a difference. Personally, I don't believe that's the case.
 
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Injam

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Oct 15, 2021
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88
The wood of a guitar will absorb frequencies differently depending on it's hardness. This will then change the vibration characteristics of the strings as they vibrate over the poles of the pickups. Maple is harder than most other woods, so it will be a brighter sound, mahogany accentuates the midrange frequencies. So combine then as in a Les Paul, gives it that distinctive tone. For a good comparison, play a Fender Strat with a Rosewood fretboard, then play another with Maple. Of course amp etc all identically set. Then, if you can, play an Ash Strat (or Tele,) versus a Basswood or Alder one. In this case, just make sure the fretboard is the same. Again you'll hear a difference.
The strings don’t touch any wood. So how does the wood interfere with the strings vibration?
 

Injam

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2021
Messages
88
The wood of a guitar will absorb frequencies differently depending on it's hardness. This will then change the vibration characteristics of the strings as they vibrate over the poles of the pickups. Maple is harder than most other woods, so it will be a brighter sound, mahogany accentuates the midrange frequencies. So combine then as in a Les Paul, gives it that distinctive tone. For a good comparison, play a Fender Strat with a Rosewood fretboard, then play another with Maple. Of course amp etc all identically set. Then, if you can, play an Ash Strat (or Tele,) versus a Basswood or Alder one. In this case, just make sure the fretboard is the same. Again you'll hear a difference.
The strings don’t touch any wood. So how does the wood interfere with the strings vibration in
A proper scientific, peer-reviewed, and published study specifically on the affect of wood species on the tone of an electric guitar probably doesn't exist.
Why?
Probably because not so many people are interested in such a study. The results would be inconsequential.

However, there's this: It doesn't matter. (2012.)
But this is a non-scientific, unpublished, unreviewed study conducted over a few months by one undergraduate student. (Possibly as a senior/capstone project.)
Here's another from 2016: Electric Guitar Thesis (Texas A&M).
Here's a portion of the abstract from the 2016 undergraduate study:


The electric guitar luthiers have had several decades to experiment with different woods and the results are what the market will bear.

However, there is an abundance of scientific literature on the many properties of wood.
Chapter 4: Mechanical Properties of Wood
These studies are of great value and many people are very interested in them.
Feel free to apply them to the production of musical instruments. One non-scientific guess is as good as any another.
Strength Properties Wood for Practical Applications
There are MANY more scientific surveys like this available.

What jrgtr42 said in post #2 is right on the money.

Parker Fly: 1993-2016
Steinberger: some wood, graphite, and carbon fiber
 

corpse

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Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
4,876
Then all guitars must sound the same. OK not being snarky- so how do you explain that? Even 2 LP's from the same years sound different.
But- but- but- Job B says if you have $1500 to spend on a rig spend $1000 on the amp and $500 on the guitar. I can MAKE all of my guitars sound very similar.
 
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Injam

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Joined
Oct 15, 2021
Messages
88
Then all guitars must sound the same. OK not being snarky- so how do you explain that? Even 2 LP's from the same years sound different.
But- but- but- Job B says if you have $1500 to spend on a rig spend $1000 on the amp and $500 on the guitar. I can MAKE all of my guitars sound very similar.
Different windings on the pickups. No two pickups are the same. That’s why. You’re welcome.
 

AA00475Bassman

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Apr 26, 2016
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Your biggest bang is in your hands wood helps but gear will most likely not enhance your sound maybe 1% if anything !
 

WholeLottaTone

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Oct 26, 2021
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Different windings on the pickups. No two pickups are the same. That’s why. You’re welcome.
Windings on modern pickups are almost exactly the same. There might be very slight variations, but those variations don't account for the variations in tone that are usually attributed to tonewoods.

The usual argument is that pots and caps make the differences between two guitars of the same model because the values of pots and caps vary much more than those of pickups. This still fails to explain why one wiring harness and one pickup still sound different when put in different pieces of wood and why people have noticed consistent differences in tone from different kinds of wood.

As for how the wood affects the string vibration even though they don't touch each other: The vibrations are transferred from the strings to the wood by the nut, bridge, and other points of contact. It's the reason you can feel the guitar vibrate when you strum it, and it's the reason acoustic guitars produce more sound than unplugged electric guitars (the strings vibrate the bridge which vibrates the top, which produces most of the sound you hear when playing an acoustic). The wood then dampens some of these vibrations and transfers some of them back to the bridge and then on to the strings, affecting their vibrations and the signal picked up by the pickups and sent out to the amp. The different structural properties of different woods cause differences in resonance, and those differences in resonance cause the different "sounds" of different tonewoods.

The acoustic guitar example is a demonstration that this is true. If it weren't true, then the top of an acoustic guitar wouldn't vibrate when it is played. Another demonstration is the clear difference in sustain between a guitar made out of a metal girder and one made out of balsa wood. I think Johan Segeborn has a video where he mounts strings and a pickup to an I beam in his house, and it sustains for a very, very long time.

The specific differences (and whether they are audible to a person) that wood makes to electric guitar tone might be up for debate, but whether or not wood vibrates isn't.
 

zacknorton

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Aug 26, 2011
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731
Leo Fender believed a whole lot of questionable stuff like:

"I think this hitler mustache looks good on me..."
"more treble. everyone wants More treble".
"we don't need a truss rod"
"distortion is bad"
"no. I will not use higher wattage speakers"
" this needs more treble".

I kid! I Kidd.... I love me some fender guitars and amps. But a nearly deaf guy who doesn't play guitar or want to listen to feedback from players using his gear...may not be the best arbiter of what is actually what.

Remember that mustache.
 
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jrgtr42

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Mar 24, 2005
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The strings don’t touch any wood. So how does the wood interfere with the strings vibration?
The vibrations are transmitted through the nut, frets, bridge and tailpeice. Harder woods don't absorb as much, and different ones will absorb different frequencies.
 

Wilko

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Mar 11, 2002
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As mentioned before, if it's just wire and magnets then a Les paul should sound the same as a 335 or an ES 175. They sound different. Different wood or builds sound different. The acoustic properties do make differences.
 

WholeLottaTone

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Oct 26, 2021
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The vibrations are transmitted through the nut, frets, bridge and tailpeice. Harder woods don't absorb as much, and different ones will absorb different frequencies.
I think that it's actually mechanical impedance, not hardness, that is responsible for different amounts of absorption and reflection.

Rosewood is harder than maple, but the "sound" of maple is closer to ebony, which is harder than either of them. From that, it doesn't seem like hardness is really what's at work.

Mechanical impedance is basically the measure of how resistant something is to being moved. In other words, it describes how much vibration is reflected and how much is absorbed. Mechanical impedance also changes with resonance, which explains not only why different woods accent different frequencies but also why lots of guitars seem to really sing at certain frequencies.
 

jrgtr42

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I think that it's actually mechanical impedance, not hardness, that is responsible for different amounts of absorption and reflection.

Rosewood is harder than maple, but the "sound" of maple is closer to ebony, which is harder than either of them. From that, it doesn't seem like hardness is really what's at work.

Mechanical impedance is basically the measure of how resistant something is to being moved. In other words, it describes how much vibration is reflected and how much is absorbed. Mechanical impedance also changes with resonance, which explains not only why different woods accent different frequencies but also why lots of guitars seem to really sing at certain frequencies.
Fair enough, but to dumb it down for the uninitiated, hardness works. It is a combination of stiffness, density, and a few other factors that go into the impedence.
 
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