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ideal conversion candidates + general conversion info?

smitty.west

New member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
63
i'm looking at potentially having a conversion done later this year, but haven't the slightest idea of where to start.

i'm thinking of having a 52-54 (w/ bigsby), 52-56 or, most lucratively, a 52-59 done.

the common denominator, as you can see, is that i'm planning on using a '52 as the 'donor' guitar.
i haven't gotten one yet, but they seem to be the most cost-effective gateway to a conversion (due mainly to the neck angle + trapeze i'm assuming).

i'm wondering if you guys could share with me some info regarding what traits the ideal conversion candidate should possess.
of course no breaks/repairs or anything like that, but what's 'okay' to overlook? there's a refin'd '52 currently for sale by a dealer at around $8k, which i thought might make a good candidate.
who are the top guys doing conversions these days? my top choice would be johan gustavsson, but i think he's folded from doing that stuff long ago.
i really want to make sure someone with the utmost experience and best eye will be doing it, especially if doing a 52-59, with a retop most likely necessary to get desired flame.
it's highly unlikely i'll be able to audition the guitar prior to buying, so is there any specific trait it should feature, sonically or otherwise at time of purchase (read: prior to being sent off for surgery)? don't want a dog, obviously!

any and all info/advice would be supremely appreciated!

p.s. the conversion picture thread on here is seriously gas-inducing!
 

mistersnappy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
7,321
Honestly, I would keep an original '52 just as it is. There are a finite number of those. Why do you insist on using one that has no repairs? A boogered one is the only candidate I would consider.
 

pinefd

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,060
Honestly, I would keep an original '52 just as it is. There are a finite number of those. Why do you insist on using one that has no repairs? A boogered one is the only candidate I would consider.

I absolutely agree! A guitar with a well done headstock repair along with some other issues like maybe a prior refin, are not only excellent candidates, but also the most cost effective. That's exactly what my '53/'57 conversion is...a guitar with a an ugly headstock break, but well done repair, and a back and neck refin. So, pretty much all the value from a collector's standpoint is gone, but still a great instrument. I kept the original finish on the top, but re-did the back as a darkback to help hide the headstock break:

IMG_3273_800.jpg


IMG_3214_1000.jpg



Frank
 

MacFever

New member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
9
For me a 52/59 conversion with retop is a nono
You have three options :
- restore the 52 to its former glory
- convert to a 56 if you have original P90's
- convert to a 57 if you have original PAF's
 

marfen

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
330
Will this stupidity ever end?

I agree. to butch an original whatsoever regardless of condition is devaluing what you have. This is 80s hotrod guitar foolishness all over again. P90 LPs are magnificent sounding guitars that stand as tall as any 57-60 tonally. check out Doug and Pat, Bonamassa, etc.
 

pinefd

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,060
Will this stupidity ever end?

As long as the price of original 'bursts and vintage humbuckered GTs continue to be out of reach for all those who want a vintage LP with humbuckers, and the price of early P-90 GTs remain reasonable, then this "stupidity", as you put it, will continue...as will the demand for high end replicas.
 

MacFever

New member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
9
There might be a reason why humbuckered vintage guitars are expensive, perhaps because they sound so good ?
 

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,077
Conversions are a great way to get a 50s paf LP... But, ther have been enough of them done now to treat them like any other vintage guitar and buy one when it comes up for sale. One reasonably priced shows up every 2-4 months. I have two and didnt ned to do the work on either. Otherwise, personally, i would only convert one where the body has been already routed in some way or if the finish had already been stripped and i could still restore a stripped guitar. Even a headstock/neck repair i would leave as a gold top. Jmho
 

Dishimyuh

Active member
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,206
I absolutely agree! A guitar with a well done headstock repair along with some other issues like maybe a prior refin, are not only excellent candidates, but also the most cost effective. That's exactly what my '53/'57 conversion is...a guitar with a an ugly headstock break, but well done repair, and a back and neck refin. So, pretty much all the value from a collector's standpoint is gone, but still a great instrument. I kept the original finish on the top, but re-did the back as a darkback to help hide the headstock break:

IMG_3273_800.jpg


IMG_3214_1000.jpg



Frank

You're KILLING me!
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
I find it to be a shame that anyone would think a nice, collectable condition Goldtop could be and "ideal" conversion candidate.
Very sad. :dang
 

pinefd

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,060
I find it to be a shame that anyone would think a nice, collectable condition Goldtop could be and "ideal" conversion candidate.
Very sad. :dang

I agree, Tom. But I think a big part of where people tend to disagree, is what constitutes "collectable condition". Where does one draw that line? Are guitars with issues still considered to be collectible?

When I was looking for a conversion candidate, I actually bought five guitars over the course of a few years, looking for the right one. I was obviously determined. All five were issues guitars.

The first was a stripped '55, but otherwise in perfect condition. That guitar I ended up restoring rather than converting, and was the subject of these two threads:

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...ear-Old-Naked-Beauty-(with-friend)&highlight=
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...e!-%9255-Goldtop-Restoration-by-DJ&highlight=

The second one was a '52 with a prior headstock break, but otherwise in great condition, with original finish. I decided it was too nice to touch, and I ended up selling it to another forum member.

The third was a total refin, with some overly aggressive sanding of the maple top, and a headstock break. I decided that one was going to require too much work, including a possible re-top, and I sold it.

The fourth was a stripped and bursted '54, with a neck that was broken in two places, and a grafted on, non-original headstock. I've actually decided to re-neck that one, but otherwise probably keep it as-is, because I love the looks of it:

IMG_0827_800.jpg


And the fifth one is the one I posted above; a guitar with a repaired headstock break, and poorly refinished gold back and neck.


Frank
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
I agree, Tom. But I think a big part of where people tend to disagree, is what constitutes "collectable condition". Where does one draw that line? Are guitars with issues still considered to be collectible?

We could start with guitars that basically have no issues.
Or, perhaps nothing worse than Grovers or maybe missing parts and/or simple reversible mods.
 

sws1

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,846
GEEZ Frank - You certainly know how to highlight a top carve. :dude:
 

Steve Craw

Formerly Lefty Elmo
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,294
Maybe a bad comparison, but for years I was involved in the classic car hobby, and Mustangs were my area of interest. I owned three of them, all 1966s , two GT Coupes and a stunning convertible. In those days the object was preservation, keep the car just like it was when it was first built, especially if you want to maximize your investment later. Now along comes the "restomod", where the original car is just the platform for the look, and upgrades to engine, brakes ,etc. are considered ok. Beyond that, we now see Mustangs converted to Shelby replicas, Cameros into Yenkos and the like, and these cars sell for more than a beautifully restored car done to original specs. Is the world going to run out of 1966 Mustangs to restomods? Not likely. And early goldtops aren't going to vanish either. A friend of mine has a beautiful conversion, sold another, and has one in the works. He won't post here any more. Too much vitriol, the haters won! In the end, enjoy your guitar, and do what makes you happy!
 

T.Allen

Moderator
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
2,662
Conversions are a great way to get a 50s paf LP... But, ther have been enough of them done now to treat them like any other vintage guitar and buy one when it comes up for sale. One reasonably priced shows up every 2-4 months. I have two and didnt ned to do the work on either. Otherwise, personally, i would only convert one where the body has been already routed in some way or if the finish had already been stripped and i could still restore a stripped guitar. Even a headstock/neck repair i would leave as a gold top. Jmho

I agree. There are plenty of these with the sins already committed. Search one out and buy it.
 

oldsongs

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
308
Will this stupidity ever end?

Amen.

The opening post is chapter and verse from the internet Les Paul manifesto. You want to buy a $10,000 guitar and send it to some guy in Sweden who you read about on the internet and wait who knows how long, it just doesn't make any sense.

If you really have to have a conversion, buy one that's already done. There's always plenty for sale. I think some guy on this forum has a conversion factory in his back bedroom and he's always got a few retopped butcher jobs to sell.
 

Kris Ford

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
4,003
Just stupid as hell to put a '59 SN# on a '52-'56. Not acceptable on any level IMO, worse yet is to refer it as "the '59", "my burst", or any of the other sad charades I've seen here.
They can pretend all they want, but it will never be anything other than what IT IS...a modified Les Paul..which with the old wood is still great, but you can't make something it's not..especially forging the SN#
Putting humbuckers/ABR-1/TP/sunburst finish on a 52-56 makes it just that, it will never make it a burst.
 

blauserk

Active member
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
1,778
One other reason to buy an existing conversion: You can try before you buy. Get 48 hour approval period and play the snot out of it--no guesswork about whether it's a good conversion candidate.

I've been on the LPF going on 14 years. I've lost count of the number of guys who have pulled out all the stops to have their "ultimate conversion" built, and spare no expense because they're going to keep this guitar forever, pulling the harness from an unloved '59 ES so even the pots and caps are year-appropriate, and having some poor ES-175 denuded of its PAFs and its husk sold off on eBay. For whatever reason, many of those guitars are sold off within a year or two of completion. Take advantage of other people doing the legwork, and keep both the "conversion candidate" and the "donor guitars" intact.

(I've also seen any number of custom orders that were intended to be "forever guitars" sold off--some of them commissioned by me. I've learned my lesson! I only buy guitars I can play before making my final decision whether to buy.)
 

pinefd

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,060
Believe me, when I was looking for a conversion, if I could have found a great one for a reasonable price, I would have jumped on it. They're not as common as all of you make them out to be...unless I was just looking in all the wrong places. And I was looking for a few years. The great ones are those that people either hold onto, or they try to sell for $28K+. It's the main reason I ended up doing my own conversion. And it played a major factor in why I ended up buying a 'burst. I figured if it was going to take that much $ to get a really nice conversion, then I'd rather put that money toward a 'burst. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to do that, however.
 
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