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ideal conversion candidates + general conversion info?

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Joe, I find this statement intriguing. I have felt the same way on more than one occasion. Can you elaborate a bit more on what "playing stiff" means to you, and do you have any guesses on what might the cause of it?

Obviously I'm not speaking for Joe, but I have had similar experiences with conversions.
I think the biggest [but not only] reason is they aren't gigged with regularly and/or aren't set up well. I've had a few over the decades that were stellar. I've arguably had much better ones than GI.Paul, but that's an old love affair. It's magic. If you picked it up and played it briefly, you would "get it", even if it wasn't truly your taste. :jim
 

JBLPplayer

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,136
Joe, I find this statement intriguing. I have felt the same way on more than one occasion. Can you elaborate a bit more on what "playing stiff" means to you, and do you have any guesses on what might the cause of it?

Sometimes when you replace the frets or the fingerboard I have found in my personal experience that guitar goes into this type of shock.. 10's feel like 11's and 11's feel like cables. Even after playing it in it still does not reach the level of that true slinky feel that is known from a big fret 59/60 guitar. It all depends on who does the work. Joe Glaser has done exceptional work for me...there are others that do great work as well. I am also in the category that I don't mind the little frets on pre-mid 59 Les Paul's. I know I'm in the minority with that statement. My 57 Gold Top ( Major Tom) is one of the best playing guitars I own. Lil frets and all. So ....Doubling down... If it's converted great... But to take stock pieces and cut into them doesn't get you any closer to the Grail than you had before you sent it away.
Again, it's just my 2 sheckles.
Joe B :salude
 

surfreak

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
1,115
Those who shout indignity at the prospect of converting a no-issue (or minor issue) vintage guitar invariably associate this to "collectability", loss of value, etc.

A player might not necessarily care about this, and think as a musician rather than a collector. If a conversion turns a music making tool into a better instrument for your music, then why not?

For many, the value of a great song is far greater than any old wood, no matter how well preserved.
 

hotpaul

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
34
Those who shout indignity at the prospect of converting a no-issue (or minor issue) vintage guitar invariably associate this to "collectability", loss of value, etc.

A player might not necessarily care about this, and think as a musician rather than a collector. If a conversion turns a music making tool into a better instrument for your music, then why not?

For many, the value of a great song is far greater than any old wood, no matter how well preserved.

Many people view these as more than just a hunk of wood and metal that creates sound. A piece of history, a piece of art, a record of the passage of time, a finite resource that can not be replicated...

To some, they carry as much symbolic value as they do as an instrument. when you start tearing them apart you are changing that.

Love them for what they are, not what you want them to be.
 

Pinstripephil

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
42
I feel quite apprehensive joining in on this discussion. I am a fairly new member and I bow to the greater knowledge of the long termers, let along the admins and JBLPlayer.

I think playing the guitar prior to its conversion is probably the beginning and end of a good conversion experience.

For me, the guitar will have a voice (this is the wood in my view). You need to like that voice. It will always be that voice whether with pafs or p90s. Think of those pickups like an sm58 or sm57 microphone. Both are different but it is only your voice ultimately that those two microphones will have to work with. Pafs and p90s don't change the voice. They just add a bit of their own character to it before it passes to the amp.

I have owned and played paf guitars and 50s p90s guitars. And I really do believe that above is how it works. However I have never played or owned a 57-60 Burst. So I am limited there.

I agree about the 'stiffness' but actually believe a good set up and investment in playing time will open a guitar up, no matter what you do to it. But the voice will remain.

Check out this vid of one of my go to guys; Dickey Betts. By this time in his career he has a floyd on his burst and lord knows what else has happened to it. It still sounds just as it ever did. To my ears anyway. You get a good shot of it at 21mins15secs. Killer solo at 29mins58secs.


So my conclusion would be to leave a guitar as it is if you like the voice and can stand p90s (say the sm58 vibe). But if you really need the sm57 vibe, do what the heck you like. It's your guitar, your money, your life and good luck to you. I would never sniff at it. I'd just be glad to hear you play something you love with great passion.

ATB.
 
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jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,077
Think i have been pretty clear that i dont advocate converting untouched guitars in todays world. That said, why would adding HBs and a new finish all of a sudden make a otherwise good playing guitar "stiff"? Mine play and sound like most 50s guitars i have played (better than many) including bursts and has a neck that is very similar to Joes Spot. Frampton's custom and Betts 55 are just two examples of well played conversions that featured in iconic music.

only thing i can think of is if the conversion was handled poorly (bad neck reset on a shallow angled 52-53) or one that has been poorly maintained (bad set up or fret job). That latter often plagues vintage guitars of all types. Duanes guitars at the time they were in the Rock hall played like crap...but they had not been maintained.
 
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lpnv59

All Access/Backstage Pass
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
10,725
Think i have been pretty clear that i dont advocate converting untouched guitars in todays world. That said, why would adding HBs and a new finish all of a sudden make a otherwise good playing guitar "stiff"? Mine play and sound like most 50s guitars i have played (better than many) including bursts and has a neck that is very similar to Joes Spot. Frampton's custom and Betts 55 are just two examples of well played conversions that featured in iconic music.

I think....maybe they're referencing 52-53 conversions with less than perfect neck resets.
 

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,077
I think....maybe they're referencing 52-53 conversions with less than perfect neck resets.
Funny enough i have never played one after a neck reset. Mine are a 54 and 55 so didnt need it...the others i have played also didnt need it or they shaved down the ABR.
 

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,077
Those who shout indignity at the prospect of converting a no-issue (or minor issue) vintage guitar invariably associate this to "collectability", loss of value, etc.

A player might not necessarily care about this, and think as a musician rather than a collector. If a conversion turns a music making tool into a better instrument for your music, then why not?

For many, the value of a great song is far greater than any old wood, no matter how well preserved.
There are a ton of converted gold tops around. 30 yrs ago, it was hard to track down guitars. Now with the internet you can find them pretty easily. I looked for maybe 2 months for a buddy a while back and found 5-6 easily.
 

lpnv59

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Jul 15, 2001
Messages
10,725
Funny enough i have never played one after a neck reset. Mine are a 54 and 55 so didnt need it...the others i have played also didnt need it or they shaved down the ABR.

All 3 of my conversions were '56's, but I have played several 52/53 w/ neck resets and they all played wonderfully. Mark Bishop has one that Dave Johnson made up that feels, sounds and looks like the burst it was meant to be. I can only think of the one conversion I mentioned earlier that played stiff. I'm sure it isn't the only one with a steeper than normal neck pitch. But it felt awful....looked good though. :jim
 

AA00475Bassman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
3,769
Back in the late 70s i bought a 56- 59 convert, offset seem with flame played it for two years and the guitar lost its luster and became another buggered guitar . Got my hands on a Guitar trader 59 burst in 82 had that guitar till someone wanted it more than i did . Buy a Murphy please leave these old guitars alone i have such fond memories of walking into Pete's Guitars and getting that wiff of vintage tone smell .
Now case in point for twenty five years part of my business has involved metal restoration on 356 Porsche cars and the cars i cut for panels was a crime, rusted, dented , id cut them . Every car would be saved today . Seven years back i get a call from out east the guy has a car at his house in Mn. 60 miles from my shop i told him done with cars burned out . You need to meet me you will do this one so i set a time when he's in town and go look at the car . This car would have been cut to pieces in the 80s , he had a folder on the car showed me the german title 1st owner was Ferry Porsche .
 

abalonevintage

Active member
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
3,186
I would have to respectfully disagree, but that's just my opinion.

LOL! Well, you are in the minority.

In 1986, before I put the tune-o-matic on it, I took it to Southworths, American Guitar Center, Guitar Trader, Guitar Emporium (The one in Jersey) and a couple of other shops and they DID NOT EVEN WANT TO TAKE THE GUITAR IN TRADE!

...and my "sweetheart deal" would have been a straight up trade for a reissue '59 Les Paul.

Times have a changed. :salude
 

Dishimyuh

Active member
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,206
My '52 tuneomatic conversion is my daily driver...it doesn't look as awesome as my Burst, but it is a beast...an amazing guitar. No one cared when I converted it in 1985, and in fact, most guitarist at the time would have said I did the world a favor.

I'm glad I didn't put PAFs in it. No reason to.

View attachment 4102

OH THE HORROR!
 

marfen

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
330
I feel quite apprehensive joining in on this discussion. I am a fairly new member and I bow to the greater knowledge of the long termers, let along the admins and JBLPlayer.

I think playing the guitar prior to its conversion is probably the beginning and end of a good conversion experience.

For me, the guitar will have a voice (this is the wood in my view). You need to like that voice. It will always be that voice whether with pafs or p90s. Think of those pickups like an sm58 or sm57 microphone. Both are different but it is only your voice ultimately that those two microphones will have to work with. Pafs and p90s don't change the voice. They just add a bit of their own character to it before it passes to the amp.

I have owned and played paf guitars and 50s p90s guitars. And I really do believe that above is how it works. However I have never played or owned a 57-60 Burst. So I am limited there.

I agree about the 'stiffness' but actually believe a good set up and investment in playing time will open a guitar up, no matter what you do to it. But the voice will remain.

Check out this vid of one of my go to guys; Dickey Betts. By this time in his career he has a floyd on his burst and lord knows what else has happened to it. It still sounds just as it ever did. To my ears anyway. You get a good shot of it at 21mins15secs. Killer solo at 29mins58secs.


So my conclusion would be to leave a guitar as it is if you like the voice and can stand p90s (say the sm58 vibe). But if you really need the sm57 vibe, do what the heck you like. It's your guitar, your money, your life and good luck to you. I would never sniff at it. I'd just be glad to hear you play something you love with great passion.

ATB.

GOldtop not a burst. not a Floyd rose, hopefully something that didn't require too much butchery and hopefully that wasn't a 57/58.
 

dwagar

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
4,451
When I first started lusting over a 50s Les Paul, I read about conversions and thought that'd be a great way to get into one at a much cheaper price. But when you start pricing in the expensive hardware, they get very pricey.

I found this at an auction, a '53 in need of some love:

IMG_8369_800x600_.jpg


I had a lot of great feedback on the forum, different refin ideas, bridge options, etc., reset the neck and do a full conversion - this would be a good candidate.

But after a lot of reflection, and many emails back and forth with Mapleflame (who has saved more than anyone I know) I didn't see any reason to make the guitar pretend to be something it wasn't. With a Mojoaxe bridge, early trap LPs are great to play.

53body.JPG


So, I'm in the camp that unless you find one that's already been routed, it's better to restore than convert.
 

lous1952

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Messages
99
I know that most people here are horrified by the Junior to Burst conversions.
At the NY Guitar Show Lay's Guitar Shop had several of them there.
They looked pretty good to me.
He said that he uses beat up guitars to build them.
He also said that he uses Eastern Maple for the tops, and they certainly looked good.
You can buy a finished shell and add your own parts, or buy a finished one with whatever vintage parts that you want.
I wouldn't do it to a nice Junior, but buying a beat up husk and trying to restore it with vintage parts might cost you more than it's worth when finished.
I'm less against doing this than I am against converting Goldtops.

https://www.facebook.com/1665772368...6577236827802/166578753494317/?type=3&theater

Edit: He told me how he deals with the double octave dots on the fretboard, which I'm not sure that I should divulge here.
I will say that he does not replace any rosewood- the finished product is all original fretboard.
Of course, that assumes that the original fretboard is intact.




 
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fcsnut

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Messages
248
I've played that guitar, it's great.

anyone recognize the top or know who did the work?
 
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