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Imagine for a minute that Gibson had stopped making ES 335/345/355s after 1960...

AlienVintage

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Sep 10, 2015
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Just have fun with the idea - let’s just pretend.

How would we thinking about these guitars (‘58 - ‘60) today? What would the impacts have been?

Let’s say that Gibson didn’t start making them again until 1968 (through present).
 

SkyPalermo

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Dec 18, 2013
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Interesting idea. I'm not sure bit I think they wouldn't be as popular. They were played by a lot of brit bands that had an impact on me (e.g. The Smiths, Oasis, Pulp, Blur, Supergrass, Suede etc.) and were played by many of the early noughties garage-rock revivalists.

I think it has always an impact on you what your heroes play. So, if these guitars wouldn't have been around as much they might not have been played as much maybe due to availability and price.

The 3X5 were the epitome of indie-cool in the 80s, 90s and early 00s. Not so much anymore, I think lately they have gone a bit out of fashion, crossing over into the realm of posh dad's guitars.

The Jazzmaster is now king.
 

deytookerjaabs

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Nov 6, 2016
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Hmmm, what do you mean exactly, what would it do to their value and desirability???
 

RAB

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Mar 17, 2005
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Just have fun with the idea - let’s just pretend.

How would we thinking about these guitars (‘58 - ‘60) today? What would the impacts have been?

Let’s say that Gibson didn’t start making them again until 1968 (through present).

Hey AV, good to "see you!" RAB here...well, if Gibson discontinued the 335/345/355 products maybe they'd have made/sold a lot more Epi Rivieras and Sheratons, eh? :hank
 

The Shifter

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Aug 31, 2004
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That's funny. I was thinking about starting a thread that pondered the notion of what would have happened if Gibson kept making the Les Paul like it was in 1959 all into the 60's but still putting the same sort of Patent Decal pickups in it like you'd find in a 1964 ES335.:hmm
 

AlienVintage

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Thanks guys!

Yes, exactly. All of this is obviously highly hypothetical. And there are no “right” answers, of course.

I’m wondering what the potential impacts would have been, with respect to the collectibility of ‘58 through ‘60 ES 335/345/355s.

If and how things would have differed from Les Pauls.

Would there be a narrower collectibility “gap” between a ‘58-60 Les Paul and a ‘58-60 335?

Would we look at, say, a ‘59 335 with more “reverence” than we currently do?
 

RAB

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Thanks guys!

Yes, exactly. All of this is obviously highly hypothetical. And there are no “right” answers, of course.

I’m wondering what the potential impacts would have been, with respect to the collectibility of ‘58 through ‘60 ES 335/345/355s.

If and how things would have differed from Les Pauls.

Would there be a narrower collectibility “gap” between a ‘58-60 Les Paul and a ‘58-60 335?

Would we look at, say, a ‘59 335 with more “reverence” than we currently do?

Or if Richards, Clapton, Page, et al had favored a dot inlay 335 over the “heavy and clumsy” single cutaway Les Pauls a ‘58-‘60 Standard might sell for cheap, eh? :teeth
 

Don

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Or if Richards, Clapton, Page, et al had favored a dot inlay 335 over the “heavy and clumsy” single cutaway Les Pauls a ‘58-‘60 Standard might sell for cheap, eh? :teeth

That's the bottom line. If our heroes didn't favor them, there would be little difference in desirability and value.
 

OKGuitar

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Jan 20, 2011
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Would we look at, say, a ‘59 335 with more “reverence” than we currently do?

How much more "reverence" can a 59 335 get? 59's have become so desirable that the 58's and 60's are languishing by comparison. The "magic" of 59 is real but there is plenty of magic (maybe more) in a 58 and an early to mid 60 is identical to a mid to late 59.
 

AlienVintage

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I guess all of my thinking is in reference to Les Pauls.

To me, it blows my mind that I can still pick up an early ‘60 ES-345 with changed pickups for around the same cost of a Historic.

Even a totally original ‘60 ES-345. Maybe $16k(ish) in today’s market? It is such a relative bargain. Compare that to the value of a ‘60 Burst (yes, I know... some would say apples and oranges). It sort of boggles my mind that prices are so affordable. I can only attribute that to the fact that Gibson continued to make the 335/45/55s, from ‘61+, so there was never any scarcity issue overall (yes, scarcity when it comes to the earliest ones, but when you add them all to the same general pile).

I grew up a huge Les Paul guy, but it was only hands-on experimentation (and not following any guitar heroes in particular) that brought me to appreciate 335/45/55s as much as, or maybe even more than, Les Pauls.
 

P.A.F

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I think If Gibson had stopped ES production now they could have been even more iconic and expansive, but not as a burst. They are laminated body guitars...
 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
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In the world/parallel universe where they stopped making 335/345/355 after 1960 I can fly without ANY ancillary equipment. I am too busy doin' that to play so it is a ridiculous question!
 

RAB

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I guess all of my thinking is in reference to Les Pauls.

To me, it blows my mind that I can still pick up an early ‘60 ES-345 with changed pickups for around the same cost of a Historic.

Even a totally original ‘60 ES-345. Maybe $16k(ish) in today’s market? It is such a relative bargain. Compare that to the value of a ‘60 Burst (yes, I know... some would say apples and oranges). It sort of boggles my mind that prices are so affordable. I can only attribute that to the fact that Gibson continued to make the 335/45/55s, from ‘61+, so there was never any scarcity issue overall (yes, scarcity when it comes to the earliest ones, but when you add them all to the same general pile).

I grew up a huge Les Paul guy, but it was only hands-on experimentation (and not following any guitar heroes in particular) that brought me to appreciate 335/45/55s as much as, or maybe even more than, Les Pauls.

I do think vintage 335 types are under valued...that’s a good thing! So are 1959-65 Epiphone Sheratons and Rivieras under valued, another good thing! I gig my ‘62 Riviera and ‘63 335 a lot. While I still worry about and take excellent care of them I am glad I don’t have to worry about them as I would an original Burst...of course I played my original Bursts and PAF goldtops in some real dives too! :hank
 

OKGuitar

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I think If Gibson had stopped ES production now they could have been even more iconic and expansive, but not as a burst. They are laminated body guitars...
And a Les Paul is two solid planks of wood laminated together. So, that's why it's worth up to ten times as much. Who knew?
It has nothing to do with construction. It has little to do with tone (you've heard the term "burst killer" applied to ES's). It has something to do with appearance (flame tops are pretty) and a lot to do with guitar heroes. Yes, 335's were played by guitar heroes too-otherwise a 64 335 would be worth less than it is. There are other reasons that a 58-60 LP is worth more than a 335 but none are because a 335 is laminated.
 

Bob Womack

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The 3X5 were the epitome of indie-cool in the 80s, 90s and early 00s. Not so much anymore, I think lately they have gone a bit out of fashion, crossing over into the realm of posh dad's guitars.

The Jazzmaster is now king.
Oh my. Thanks for the warning. I've always bucked the trends so now the Jazzmaster is off limits to me. Actually, I've survived a lot of what I call "Sneer Periods" where certain types of gear are in style. Have you noticed that the artists are always "all in" on their latest gear, just as they are on their latest album, whether either are good or not? I wrote up a little article about that on my site, HERE.

Bob
 

P.Walker

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Oh my. Thanks for the warning. I've always bucked the trends so now the Jazzmaster is off limits to me. Actually, I've survived a lot of what I call "Sneer Periods" where certain types of gear are in style. Have you noticed that the artists are always "all in" on their latest gear, just as they are on their latest album, whether either are good or not? I wrote up a little article about that on my site, HERE.

Bob

that's hilarious. There's always a bone to pick with every crowd it seems.

Back when I was young and all we ever did was metallica, we'd make fun of the guy with teles and single coils. Now it's kinda weird not to have one.

Still don't like teles that much though...:hee
 

El Gringo

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Oh my. Thanks for the warning. I've always bucked the trends so now the Jazzmaster is off limits to me. Actually, I've survived a lot of what I call "Sneer Periods" where certain types of gear are in style. Have you noticed that the artists are always "all in" on their latest gear, just as they are on their latest album, whether either are good or not? I wrote up a little article about that on my site, HERE.

Bob
That was a very good read and I enjoyed that , Thank you
 
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