Just got some PAF's

[roadrunner]

A friend of mine finally turned loose of a set of PAF's he's had for a long time... this should be interesting!

I have a set of modded Antiquities (P90 magnets) in one of my R9's and the guitar sounds wonderful. I'm going to change the pots on my other R9 and drop the PAF's in this weekend.

I'll let you guys know what I find out.

 

[Sean]

Looking forward to it! might be an idea to first put the PAFs in, play it a while, then change the pots, so you can hear the difference each change makes.

And if you get tired of those P90 magnets.....

 

[toni]

Exellent idea Roadrunner ! :dude

but I think Sean is right, you sould isolate variables, try the pots first, and then the pickups.

 

[Dave Paetow]

I noticed a big difference when I replaced the Antiquities with PAFs in my Historic.

 

[toni]

Dave,

1-could you describe "the big difference" you heard with details ?
thanks !

2-What do you think about Virtual PAF's ?

 

[Tonefiend]

The title of this thread makes me sick "just got some paf's" :lolspin
I am looking forward to hearing your report

 

[roadrunner]

Results

... sorry it's taken so long to get back ... I've been playing guitar!

It's close gang... real close ,but the PAFs win... I think :lolspin

Jeez, they both sound great... double tone, note swell, pinch harmonics for days... I dunno. Somebody once mentioned the Antiquities don't do the "La Grange" thing? Wrong. You can ping, twing, zing and generally make yourself go into serious hearing impairment with the modded Ant.s' ability to get those harmonics... it's effortless. The PAFs win with a slightly more "airy" top end... just more "stuff" there. I think I liked the mids and "hollowness" of the Ant.s better though... really nails the Skydog tone circa Fillmore East. Somewhere around the same on the low end... I think... I haven't got to the low strings yet... :lol

I think alot of it has to do with the guitars themselves. Both are light: '00 is 8lbs 3oz and the '01 is 8lbs. 4 oz. Both guitars are very resonant, shake like they got the dyin' flu when you play open chords and sound killer... unplugged.

I gotta do some more a/b comparing here I guess. I'm using a late '56 tweed Deluxe, '65 BF Deluxe Reverb, Vicky Bassman, a 50 watt Plexi and a Univalve to do the listening with. I'm still dialing the PAFs for correct spacing and polepiece balance, this has a lot to do with taking so long to get back. It takes a while to dial this in.

One thing I have concluded: the Duncans are a way better value than the originals. The sound difference between the two is almost negligible and given that fact... a set of Antiquities costs about $200.00, a used Gibson P90 is about 20 to 25 bucks for a grand total of: $225.00. I don't think you can buy one original PAF pickup cover for that amount.

To be continued...

 

[roadrunner]

The pot thing...

I wanted to change the pots in the guitar getting the PAFs to keep the variables to a minimum. I put the same pots: CTS, measuring about 530 to 540 ohms each along with same value bumblebee cap.s as the other guitar has.

I used the same strings: GHS burnished nickle .11 guage on both guitars.

btw: the Ant.s I'm using are from '96. The neck output is 7.58 and the bridge output is 8.2

The PAFs are: neck 7.4 and bridge 8.1

 

[dgk]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

so you're saying i can spend $2900 for a 63 sg with a couple paf's of $400 for a couple antiquity's and be close?...could YOU tell the diff without knowing which i being played to you???..,,,thanks BTW for the input..i (WE) appreciate it..dgk

 

[Ed A]

To really know what the difference is I suggest you try them in the same guitar. Whatever tone difference there is between PAFs and Antiquities in my opinion is not as big a difference that you will get from one piece of wood to another. Now that you have the PAFs in one guitar, you might try the Antiquities in that same guitar to really know whats going on.

 

[Ed Rafalko]

It all depends on the guitar. I had a Seth Lover in the brdige of my Y2K at 60burst's, and it was very bright sounding. We pulled it and put an old PAF in it. It was very bright sounding- I don't remember much of a difference at all. 60burst probably has a better memor, since his ear is much better than mine at picking up nuances, but hell, they sounded almost the exact same to me.

 

[60burst]

There is no right or wrong pickup. It depends on the guitar and amp being used, as well as the player. I think a lot of guys stick a PAF in their guitar and expect some kind spiritual experience and are disappointed when nothing magical immediately happens. Ed's guitar is a bright guitar so of course it was still bright when we stuck a PAF in it. I like PAFs because I use old guitars and old amps. They are a good match. If I was playing metal through a Bogner stack I doubt very much if I would necessarily use a PAF. I would probably opt for the Duncan Distortion or some pickup like it.

The Antiquities were impressive to me. The heavier of a sound you use the less a PAF type pickup will probably work for you. PAFs really match up well with old amps, old guitars and old players but are certainly are not the answer for everybody. I use PAFs partly, because they are all I have ever used and they do the job better than anything else for me. I do think that if I no longer had any PAFs I would be quite happy with some of the newer made pickups.

 

[toni]

I agree

It seems that when we find a real good tone, we set it as the "reference".
I presonnally prefer PAFs and moded Antiquities (aln V) over other modern PAF-type pickups.
But there are some GREAT new pickups out there.
I like the new Virtuals very very much also, very honestly.
My firts reaction with these new pickups was "it's not exactly like a old PAF..."
They have more compression and are fatter than a PAF or a moded Antiquity.
But, so what ! , they breathe and sound full and tasty !
I played them for a month, and now i think they are great also.
I agree, THE WOOOOOD ! is so important.

Toni :wail:

 

[Dave Paetow]

I dunno, I think PAFs work well for all kinds of different music. I can crank them up through an old tweed for blues, or a SLO-100 for hard rock and they sound great. Listen to the variety of sounds Gary Moore has used his burst for, from metal to pure blues...

Old wood
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=135458&a=6337939&p=56069528&Sequence=0&res=high

 

[60burst]

So that is your burst Dave? It looks pretty good to me.

I didn't say PAFs would not work for anything. I am as big of a PAF fan as you are likely to find but there is always more than one way to do any thing. For my sound, PAFs are a definite part of the equation, but I also hear guys making great sounds on gear I wouldn't normally consider at all. Every thing I do won't work for everybody else. Lots of things other guys use just will not work for me, either. I listened to some pickups at Ed's in Arlington and I didn't hear one that I didn't think was a good viable sound.

 

[toni]

Hummmm....:wow

very beautifull subtle flame !
Is it a 60 Burst ?

 

[Dave Paetow]

I think it is a late 59 or a early 60. There is a hard to read late '59 serial number on it, but I don't know if it is real. It has that '59' style neck on it, and zebras. It is a refin, so it is hard to know exactly.

 

[dgk]

paf's and page

common theory is that jimmy page put a t-top in his 58 LP when the paf died in 72....it always struck me that he didn't replace with a paf ( i know at the time they were hard to find, but even since then)....and he often uses newer LP's, so old pickups and old wood don;t seem too relevant with him....?...what do ya'll think?...if he can get along with a 70's pancake refinned standard (the red b-bender lp) why do i want the 50's ones???..course i still do!! dgk.

 

[roadrunner]

More PAF findings

... I swapped the pickups in my guitars and found out a few things. The '00 I have has a more hollow sound regardless of the pickups, it's brighter and the guitar also seems to resonate a tad bit more than the '01.

As far as the pickups go, I would say the PAFs just have more stuff going on. The note swell effect is greater with the PAFs as is the "double tone". The Ant.s also do the note swell thing and have the double tone but they seem to have less richness as far as the whole spectrum across the tone. The best comparison I can make is to a cajun stew or gumbo... the PAFs just have more "spice" to them... each note and each chord sounds just a little richer. I think I lucked into a good set. I've had a few ES guitars that were PAF powered in my time and some of them sounded killer, some were good, and some were ok. I've only owned 2 old LP's... a refinned '59 and a near mint, too clean to play '58 so I can't qualify as an expert on playing original Les Pauls. I've played quite a few of them thanks to living so close to Gruhn's and having a couple of good friends who own 'bursts... just haven't gigged with them extensively

In the end, if I didn't have the PAFs I would be totally happy with the Ant. tone. I can't see searching (or paying!) for another set of PAFs for my other LP... it sounds fine with the Duncans.

 

[toni]

thanks for your report Roadrunner !

Just for fun, try alnico II in antiquities (different from alnico V) AND, AND Virtuals !

...just for fun...
I would like to have your opinion.

BTW, i'll try to record another Antiquity/Virtuals in a JTM45 RI soundfile soon.

thanks