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Les Paul Push/Pull Out Of Phase

herb

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Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
I'm swapping my original Classic 57s out of 1995 R8 Les Paul with a set of Wolfetone Dr Vintage. This will be an unpotted set as to try and achieve the vintage tone close to what Peter Green had with his famous guitar.

I talked to Wolfe on the phone and asked him to reverse the magnet on the neck pickup but he talked me into buying the pickups built with modern 4-way wiring and either reverse the positive/ negative leads or install a push/pull pot to switch between normal/out of phase options. I've decided to install the new p/p pot.

Just wondering what pot to buy for this project. I don't know too much about electronics but will have my brother do the job as he has a ton of soldering experience (RC airplanes) so I will get the supplies together for him, probably through Stew Mac. Also thinking about having him install new caps while he's in there. I've currently the cheap round ceramic types in there. Any suggestions?

Any comments or other suggestions welcomed.
 

au_rick

Active member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
871
I just use CTS push / pull pots or mini toggle swicthes for thre guitars I have wired up with out of phase and serial /parallel (wiring the pickups in series negates the "thinining" you get when out of phase)
 

brandtkronholm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
2,737
I'm swapping my original Classic 57s out of 1995 R8 Les Paul with a set of Wolfetone Dr Vintage. This will be an unpotted set as to try and achieve the vintage tone close to what Peter Green had with his famous guitar.

I talked to Wolfe on the phone and asked him to reverse the magnet on the neck pickup but he talked me into buying the pickups built with modern 4-way wiring and either reverse the positive/ negative leads or install a push/pull pot to switch between normal/out of phase options. I've decided to install the new p/p pot.

Just wondering what pot to buy for this project. I don't know too much about electronics but will have my brother do the job as he has a ton of soldering experience (RC airplanes) so I will get the supplies together for him, probably through Stew Mac. Also thinking about having him install new caps while he's in there. I've currently the cheap round ceramic types in there. Any suggestions?

Any comments or other suggestions welcomed.
Be warned that magnetically out-of-phase (Peter Green) has a different sound than wired out-of-phase.
It's not that different, but there you go. There is a bit of mysticism around this subject.
Perhaps it is better said "some folks hear a difference" between magnetically out-of-phase and wired out-of-phase! :)
Be sure to post a tone report after the modifications are made!
 

El Gringo

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Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
I would recommend ThroBak wiring harness , with 500k pots and caps (paper in oil ) www.throbak.com Also as you wrote about the magnet flip for the out of phase sound the magnet flip is probably the best choice to make versus wiring this and that and the magnet flip is so easy to reverse versus soldering stuff and all that work . Where this way you stay pretty much stock and you have the Peter Green mod which of course is most awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

herb

Active member
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
Well my order is all set up and I can't go back. I've been reading about this mod for years and have heard all the arguments. My plan B is after I get everything installed and if I'm not happy with the results I'll just wire it the standard way and go in there and flip the magnet. I'm looking forward to the experiment.

I'll take another look at the ThroBak harness. I have seen that. Thanks for the reminder.
 

El Gringo

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Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
Well my order is all set up and I can't go back. I've been reading about this mod for years and have heard all the arguments. My plan B is after I get everything installed and if I'm not happy with the results I'll just wire it the standard way and go in there and flip the magnet. I'm looking forward to the experiment.

I'll take another look at the ThroBak harness. I have seen that. Thanks for the reminder.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on how this turns out please . Best Wishes !
 

herb

Active member
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
Update. Pickups have arrived. Stew Mac order comes tomorrow. Just have to find time to hook up with my brother to solder things for me.

In the meantime I think I might go into my shop and practice soldering myself on some old pots and wires I have laying around. I've got the irons and supplies, just never sat down to learn how to do it properly. Can't be that difficult.
 

renderit

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Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
It is not hard at all to solder.

It takes practice to solder well.

Get yourself a solder station like a Hakko as they give you better control and let you see the effects of various heat settings.

They make it a ton easier on you.
 

herb

Active member
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Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
Just got my order from Stew Mac. I ordered the wrong caps! Just made new order and also picked up some aids to help my soldering. I am going to do this myself!
(my brother can correct my mistakes when he comes by next time! ) ;)
It is not hard at all to solder.

It takes practice to solder well.

Get yourself a solder station like a Hakko as they give you better control and let you see the effects of various heat settings.

They make it a ton easier on you.
More time to practice, pal!
 

herb

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Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
I prefer the continuous tinned copper wire used for grounding pots. Looks easier than using shielded wiring. Also looks neater. Anyone know what gauge wire to use? Thanks.
 

herb

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Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
Okay. I've got all the parts. I've started practicing on my soldering. I think my brother's feelings were hurt when I told him I was going to give it a shot, so I think I'll have him over to check my soldering and then again in an advisory role when I do the real thing. šŸ˜¬
 

renderit

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Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
10,951
If you use flux make sure you wipe it down later with alcohol.

The ground can be anything. I have used 14 gauge Romex stripped out and it works great.

With pre-tinned wire you may not need any flux on the terminals if you clean them well.
 

herb

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Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
Just checking in. Still practicing plus life has thrown a few wrenches my way. Nothing serious. Just want to make sure I do this job correctly.
 

herb

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Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
Haven't proceeded with the change yet. I think about doing it and then play my guitar and love the sound so much I don't want to mess with it. I just bought a Wildwood Spec 50's Les Paul. Might do the swap on this guitar. Problem is I like the tone of that one too. :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2022
Messages
91
This keeps happening to me too. I buy a guitar with great plans and even though it doesn't have the tone I planned on, I end up liking the tone it has. The result is a bunch of (unmodified) guitars and I get nervous in case it gets worse if I mess with it.

Maybe you don't get the tone you want, but you do get the tone you need... or you don't get the tone you deserve...idk
 

herb

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Jan 13, 2002
Messages
981
Alight. Instead of a bunch of soldering and unsoldering what I did was do the magnet flip in the neck pickup with the pickup already in the guitar. I figured if I don't like the mod it would be most easiest to reverse. It sounds good but there's definitely a drop in volume when I go to that middle position. If I back off on either one of the volume knobs the volume goes up but I slowly loose the effect. Is this normal for this mod?
 

poor man's burst

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Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
421
Alight. Instead of a bunch of soldering and unsoldering what I did was do the magnet flip in the neck pickup with the pickup already in the guitar. I figured if I don't like the mod it would be most easiest to reverse. It sounds good but there's definitely a drop in volume when I go to that middle position. If I back off on either one of the volume knobs the volume goes up but I slowly loose the effect. Is this normal for this mod?
Yes. The out of phase sound is the signal of a pickup substracting to the signal of the other pickup instead of adding, as in a in phase sound. The more "equal" (or balanced) the signals are, the more it cancells frequencies, the larger the drop in volume is.
 
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