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Nitrocellulose Facts

honduras

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
81
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the nitro used today by Gibson and the nitro used in the 50's and 60's. I have noticed that the nitro finish used after 1980 does not yellow to the extent that the old stuff used to. I have a Heritage 80 which is now 23 years old and hanging on the wall, exposed to ultraviolet rays etc. The Gibson logo on the headstock is still pearly white. I remember reading in an article by George Gruhn where he mentioned that Gibson switched from Dupont to Valspar some time ago. I imagine the Valspar has more plasticser
in it. Didn't Gibson drop the plasticiser in 1999? What effect did that have on the aging process?
 

whippost575859

New member
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
3,079
The current lacquer on standard production guitars has alot of plasticiser.

The current historic lacquer has significantly less, and the Murphys have none. The plasticiser was reduced in 99 on historics only.

As far as the aging process, it is impossible to tell because enough time hasn't elapsed between 99 and now, and most of us take good enough care of our guitars now that you won't notice much aging for at least 10 years or more. We keep them out of the sun as much as possible, we polish them after gigs. Alot of this wasn't known in the 60's and the guitars got treated much worse, but still did not age verty heavily, provided they stayed off the road. Its a matter of time, curing, natural effects, and composition. We haven't had enough time elapse to tell what the post-'99s will do. Frankly, I'm not all that concerned about it. :)
 

Buzz

All Access/Backstage Pass
Joined
Sep 22, 2001
Messages
1,481
I've been trying to buy some vintage lacquer off somebody but I think they flaked out. I'm still hoping to get it but it's been a long time since the last email, last one said something about difficulties shipping flameables.

Anyway, I don't know what brand it is, but it's old stuff. I'd imagine there is still a few gallons of vintage lacquer out there, but wouldn't it be all dried up?

Here is some info I've not heard here or anywhere, from one of the emails:

"Sure, I have been so busy I can't find the time, but I will very soon. I have a gallon of the old 24% solids nitrocellulose lacquer left. It is NOT available anywhere in this form. EPA stopped it and so did the last people to use it (furniture manufacturers). The bad side to it is the cracking if you do not take care of your guitar. Idiots seem to like this and even prefer it! A vintage instrument is worth twice as much in mint condition than weather checked. They absolutely will not check if you take care of them, i.e. do not leave them out in your car and bring them in etc. I'll be in touch tonight. Thanks,****"

I couldn't find the thread to save my life, but sometime back, somebody posted the exact method Gibson used to finish in the late '50s.
 

dlcjr

New member
Joined
Jun 12, 2003
Messages
388
I have found macfaddens lacquer to perform a lot like the old stuff. If you want it to check on you, cut it with denatured alcohol.
 

Stevedenver

Active member
Joined
Jul 17, 2001
Messages
2,565
let me make some observations-first my original 1972 LP custom had yellowed overspray eveident from the color of the binding when it was new

second mofinco has the same 1976 lp custom as i do-both rosewood topped-his binding appears to be almost white, mine is pretty yellowed

third i have seen some gibson mandolins from the ninties which have yellowed so badly they are almost a tortoise shell yellowbrown

i have a 1979 lp which hasnt yellowed and a 1983 spotlight which has

i am certain that there has been, from time to time, a toner added to warm up the clear overspray-why because i also recall choosing my original 72 used over a 73 which had perfectly white binding-i liked the 'aged look'

so what does this mean-is it in fact due to plasticizer - i dont think it is exclusively , if at all,
 

dlcjr

New member
Joined
Jun 12, 2003
Messages
388
When I worked at gibson we added what we called antique toner to the clearcoat of certain guitars. It's almost an orange if it's sprayed too thick. It's made up of a very red, red/brown, and a very orangey yellow. anything with a 'natural' finish was likely to get it.
Most customs didn't, because the black wasn't true black it was lamp black. It would look green if it got toner shot on it. sometimes burts got it sometimes they didn't. It was just a flavor of the week kind of thing.
plasticizer doesn't contribute to yellowing, except that it may keep the finish more permeable for a longer time period. early exposure to uv or smoke could cause premature yellowing.
 

Tonefiend

Fiendish One
Joined
Jul 15, 2001
Messages
7,656
Vintage lacquer would be no good. The can rusts and ruins the paint, not to mention the shelf life is about a year. You wouldn't get it out of the gun adb if you did t probably would never dry.

Back in the day Lacquer had lead in it. As we all know lead is no longer used in paint. As for plasticizers they used linseed oil back then today they use retarder to get it to dry fast and allow them to shoot all year long.
 
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