Pickups to shape the sound

[wintomato]

The tired old topic of replacement pickups! Sorry, but... I have a 2015 True Historic, fantastic guitar. When I bought it, second hand, I wasn't completely happy with the sound when you push the amp, or kick in an overdrive. It went very mid focussed, bee in a jar. EQing didn't really get rid of it. So, I replaced the pickups, since that's what everyone seems to do. I am not big on customising, especially when spending so much on a guitar.
I got some lovely Monty's Retro winds, it opened up the sound a bit, very nice. But, still the issue with that overly mid focussed sound. Which makes me think/realise that it's the guitar. So, rather than trying to find a vintage PAF replica that I like, would a more modern style pickup counter the mids, and open the sound up? I guess there's only so much you can do, and the sound of the guitar, is the sound of the guitar?

I had a 2005 USA for 15 years, that had Burstbucker pro, alnico Vs, and sounded great, perhaps I should just put burst bucker pros, in this one, or another alnico V custom build.

Thanks for reading, anyone have any thoughts or experience (before I consider the worst outcome of just selling the true historic...

 

[Señor Verde]

I'm not as much as an afficianado as some around here, but a couple pickups that are less mid-focused to me than other PAF types are Bare Knuckle Mules and Wizz regular wind. I have a few PAF clones and those two are the least middy. More modern pickups I've tried had even more mids, but my experience with them is pretty limited.

 

[wintomato]

Thank you senor. I will probably try the mules, although also maybe their riff raff model, since they use alnico v and may give what I need. I guess my question, and suspicion is that a guitar has a sound, and the pickups can change that to a certain extent. Just hoping this mid thing can be dealt with with pickups. It’s a light guitar, 60s profile, just need that wide open sound when pushed.
reading that alnico v doesn’t have the compression and mid range squish that some of the others more vintage styles, without going full rock/metal.

 

[renderit]

Lollar Imperials.

Big clear piano like tones.

 

[CK6]

Thank you senor. I will probably try the mules, although also maybe their riff raff model, since they use alnico v and may give what I need. I guess my question, and suspicion is that a guitar has a sound, and the pickups can change that to a certain extent. Just hoping this mid thing can be dealt with with pickups. It’s a light guitar, 60s profile, just need that wide open sound when pushed.
reading that alnico v doesn’t have the compression and mid range squish that some of the others more vintage styles, without going full rock/metal.

A pronounced mid is a good thing if you’re playing with a band…

I’d start with the pots first if you haven’t already. Otherwise I’m sure you‘ll get great results with any of the above.

Good luck & let us know how you get on!

 

[El Gringo]

ThroBak 101 Plus pickups with A5 magnets www.throbak.com

 

[wintomato]

Thanks for the responses. Absolutely, mids are perfect for poking thru in the mix, and actually recorded, the issue is not as audible. But when playing live, I much prefer a big wide roar, with punch.
but, either way, this was more about the possibility of fighting the sound of the guitar with pickups. And interesting you mention pots, I did wonder if they also could make an impact.
ive just bought a set of burstbucker pros, these have the alnico v, let’s see what they do, although the Montys rewinds also have a v in bridge.
I guess I was surprised when I heard that mid range squish with different pickups, not as pronounced.
of course a guitar‘s sound is a combination of things, but perhaps Learning now that not all single cut chunks of mahogany sound lovely and wide.

i’m going to have one last play with height and pole adjustment on the Montys, will record that, then fit the BB Pros and compare. If that works well, then may try some Throbaks with alnico v.

 

[Sol]

The reason the Les Paul has a permanent place in the affections of musicians the world over is that no other guitar possess the harmonic complexity and detail in the midrange frequencies that the Les Paul excels in. These are the defining characteristics of the Les Paul model.

The obvious question is : Why fight it ? Seriously why ? Work with your guitar, not against it and if you can't bring yourself to switch to a Gibson ES 335 "big wide roar, with punch" (sounds like a ES335 to me).. Then just buy a Boss EQ7 pedal, scoop out the mids and be done with it.

I'm sorry to be so abrupt with you but neither, bridges, pickups, caps or pots are going to get you a Les Paul that doesn't exist.

 

[wintomato]

Thanks for the response. Don’t really like trying to explain how things sound in words.
It does exist. My 2005 USA LP had this sound, and many 2018/19 59 and 60 reissues I’ve played had this sound. Yes, LPs have a mid range that cuts through. My USA sounded great. Not the same guitar of course, but thought I’d just be buying a better version of my usa.

for some reason this 2015 TH doesn’t, yet.
i had a hunch when I tried it, but it wasn’t really set up well at the shop I tried it in. But played so nice I bought it.
So, hence the post. Can I finally reshape the sound by changing some of the electronics.
If not, I’ll have to sell up, and go and buy one that does the job, as they do exist.

I’ll update when I’ve done a few pickup swaps and will speak to a tech I know.
I have a feeling it has a sound and that won’t change fundamentally.
shame, otherwise such a great guitar, and true historics from 2015/6 do not come up often at the price I got this!

 

[El Gringo]

Thanks for the response. Don’t really like trying to explain how things sound in words.
It does exist. My 2005 USA LP had this sound, and many 2018/19 59 and 60 reissues I’ve played had this sound. Yes, LPs have a mid range that cuts through. My USA sounded great. Not the same guitar of course, but thought I’d just be buying a better version of my usa.

for some reason this 2015 TH doesn’t, yet.
i had a hunch when I tried it, but it wasn’t really set up well at the shop I tried it in. But played so nice I bought it.
So, hence the post. Can I finally reshape the sound by changing some of the electronics.
If not, I’ll have to sell up, and go and buy one that does the job, as they do exist.

I’ll update when I’ve done a few pickup swaps and will speak to a tech I know.
I have a feeling it has a sound and that won’t change fundamentally.
shame, otherwise such a great guitar, and true historics from 2015/6 do not come up often at the price I got this!

Based on your last sentence I would encourage you to try different pickups and even if you want to swap out the wiring harness and replace it with paper in oil caps and 500k pots which are already in there . The Paper in oil caps will give you more flexibility in tone shaping versus the mylar caps which are in there now which are not bad and there are worse caps out there than those . With Mother Nature we have to take what she gives us as wood is a natural resource and no two pieces are alike . The TH series guitars are very highly regarded around these parts and that is why is why I encourage you to try different pickups and I hope you find the sound and tone you are seeking . Best Wishes !

 

[wintomato]

Thanks very much. Yes, it. Is a superb guitar (Profile pic) Of all the LPs I tried, it was by far the best. I‘ll continue to tinker.

 

[El Gringo]

Thanks very much. Yes, it. Is a superb guitar (Profile pic) Of all the LPs I tried, it was by far the best. I‘ll continue to tinker.

She sure is a beauty !

 

[wintomato]

ps I tried the 2020 custom shop reissue 335s, and they are amazing. Love the unpotted custombuckers. One of those is def on the shopping list!

 

[JLee]

Faber bridge might help tame some of the midrange. They emphasize the lows and highs more than some other brands. More thump, but more top end sparkle and a bit of a mid-scoop compared to other 50s style Zamac/zinc bridges.

 

[wintomato]

Thanks JLee, that's something else I wondered might change things.

 

[Sol]

I just realised, we've no idea what your signal chain is. So, what amplifiers, cabs and speakers are you using ? (this is really important info).

 

[wintomato]

Thanks for the comment. This is straight in, a fuchs ODS50 on the second channel. The other comparison/test was into an Xotic BB into a jtm45 reissue. This is what I used and got a great sound with the previous Les Paul and what I took as a comparison.
also, just straight into the jtm45 with a master volume mod, gain cranked.

 

[Sol]

Thanks for your reply. Can you provide us with some audio from either amp ?

 

[wintomato]

Good question, I had thought about this. I do have recordings of both pickups with a jtm45, with an sm57 in front of a v30. The difference I am hearing is not as audible as in the room. I’ll post something with consistent mic-ing. I recently bought an Ox, and a cheap set of burstbucker pros. So, can compare the bb pro, custombuckers and Montys. I’m not into doing comparison vids, but I am invested in this one.

 

[Sol]

I think we all feel a little bit invested in your conundrum, your patient persistence has made an impression on me for sure, but please don't feel obliged to provide audio examples to satisfy our/my curiosity.
There is no guarantee that what we hear in person will come across in a recording anyway, something you have touched upon yourself.

I'm a luthier, and as such I'm persuaded that you may be best served by putting your Les Paul in the hands of someone that can best hear the contrast between the acoustic sound of your guitar balanced with its amplified sound. This is an acquired skill, but potentially invaluable in a case like this.

Such an assessment undertaken by a competent professional could save you time and money.