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Scrutinizing Bonamassa's 58 Flying Vs (Trash Bag & Amos content)

scovell001

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Apr 15, 2016
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Really great video - I ‘reckon’ it’s real, even though there’s a tell tale around the neck area which I’ve seen similar on a real 59 burst which I thought that ‘has’ to be fake ! - I’d speculate that it was an unfinished husk that was then ‘finished’ in 62/63 - if it was a max or similar they wouldn’t have gone down the factory seconds route (as norm states). These guys’d know though, they’re the experts !
 

jb_abides

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Apr 6, 2005
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Hard to lay down what, ~$250k if you don't know for sure, maybe you can verify by part and determine lowest market value. As Joe states, pickguard would be worth, what more than 3 Max copies...?
 

J.D.

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I've heard rumors for years about the "leftover" Korinas but never saw one claimed to be such before now. I'd think if it was real there would be more than 1 example. Unless this is in the Gibson ledger and/or another essentially identical one with provenance surfaces, there will always be real doubt.
 

Joe Desperado

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Jun 8, 2004
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Joe looked exactly where he needed to and saw the lack of tell in those areas. Especially under the guard, where there are several. If it’s the tell that I think he took the picture of, it’s either there or it’s not. If it is not, there is no way it’s real. If it’s there, it only means it could be real, as many modern replicas now have captured more tells.
 

Wally

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Feb 27, 2003
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If I were in the market and had a V that needed to be vetted, I would be talking to Mike Stevens.
 

marshall1987

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Joe and Norm might consider this verification test ...........and maybe one of the better methods to authenticate the mystery 1963 Korina Flying V......Joe B. should do a side-by-side playing comparison test against the authentic 1958 Flying V's. If the mystery V is authentic then it should play and sound nearly identical to the "real McCoy"....., whereas a forgery or copy Flying V would most likely fall short of expectations.
 

deytookerjaabs

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I've heard rumors for years about the "leftover" Korinas but never saw one claimed to be such before now. I'd think if it was real there would be more than 1 example. Unless this is in the Gibson ledger and/or another essentially identical one with provenance surfaces, there will always be real doubt.

I don't know anything about the back end on this but there were employees who testified a batch of white wood Korinas sat untouched collecting dust on the racks in the 60's.
 

J.D.

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With this kind of money at stake, objective evidence is needed. 60+ year old rumors don't cut it. Korina is Korina. The stuff Gibson used vs the early replica builders is likely indistinguishable.
 

Joe Desperado

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Old wood was still available in the 70s when guys like MS was building replicas. So I would agree, at this point the wood would be indistinguishable. I also know for a fact that two guitars built out of the same board, will sound different. I have examples of that here. In this case, there are really two factors. 1) correct machining marks and cuts and construction methods (call "tells") and 2) the finish. While aged finishes have come a long way, I have yet to see a guitar with the correct smell and look of vintage other than vintage. But again those replicas from the 70s probably are starting to get there too.

When Gibson made the V's they were all made at the same time using the same methods and templates. Therefore, they should all have the same tool marks, same dips, same size tenons, cavities and knob/bridge location etc. Those are not subjective. How a guitar may have been sanded could be subjective. So we look for those machine marks and construction methods to all match other known examples.

In this case, if this guitar was put together in 61-63, it is possible that the guard was cut during that time using the material from that year and not the early 58 material that had roll marks on it. So I would say that could be possible and would not claim it fake on that evidence. But the lack of the cavity "tell" would be conclusive if it is not there.
 

Joe Desperado

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I don't know anything about the back end on this but there were employees who testified a batch of white wood Korinas sat untouched collecting dust on the racks in the 60's.
That is consensus, though I have not actually seen any proof that these guitars sat unsold for several years and sold later. Not saying it didn't happen, just I have seen no documented evidence to prove it. I think the more important item here is that all the korina guitars were build at the same time in 1958 regardless of when they were finished or assembled. So they would all have the same machining marks as each other. None were build later where a template or machine was retired causing a difference in how it was made.
 

deytookerjaabs

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If you really wanted to find out you'd call up a place like the Smithsonian. They can likely tell you when the wood was felled, where it was from, how old it was when felled, how old the finish is etc. It's also more than likely all the real ones came from a certain batch of purchase at that.
 

marshall1987

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Jan 30, 2005
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Pickups sound different?

So what is the difference between a '58 vintage PAF and an early-'60s, nickel-cover Pat. # humbucking pickup? :oops: The shorter 2.25" AlNiCo 5 magnet is the only spec I can think of....oh and the pat no sticker.

The PE, 42 AWG magnet wire is the same, the nickel covers are the same, the coil bobbins are the same, the baseplate is the same, the hookup wire is the same (B/B).

An experienced guitar player like J. B. could probably distinguish a faked Flying V copy from an original vintage '58 Flying V ....BLINDFOLDED..... based on: (1) the feel; (2) playability; (3) the sound/tone; and, (4) weight-balance.
 
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IMMUSICRULZ

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May 25, 2021
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617
The Flying V that Joe Bonamossa plays may very well be one of the first, if not the first, Flynig V ever manufactured. I remember reading that Joe Bonamossa plays the Flying V because of its associations with Jimi Hendrix and J. Geils.
 

TheYinzer

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Apr 21, 2022
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10
I've heard rumors for years about the "leftover" Korinas but never saw one claimed to be such before now. I'd think if it was real there would be more than 1 example. Unless this is in the Gibson ledger and/or another essentially identical one with provenance surfaces, there will always be real doubt.
This appears to be one of the leftovers.
 
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