Setup Question

[gibletpie]

Hey guys,

I'm learning how to set up my LP and I've followed all of the recommended measurements as far as action and relief and I find I've got just a touch of buzzing between the 3rd and 7th frets, but only on the 3rd and 4th strings. So my question is, do I need to raise the bridge or add a hair more relief?

 

[Tom99SS]

It could the radius of the bridge compared to the radius of the fretboard. Most ABR-1 bridge saddles are not notched to follow the radius of the fretboard. Here is a link:

Stew-Mac setup tools

 

[gibletpie]

Thanks Tom99SS. Seems pretty logical. But given that you can't adjust bridge saddles individually on these bridges (unless I am mistaken), I'm wondering how best to fix it. It seems to me that I'd have to raise the action quite a bit to make a difference down there at the 3rd fret where it begins (again, unless I am mistaken), and so it might be better to add a bit more relief, particularly given that the problem stops at the 7th fret. Unless there is a replacement bridge does match the fretboard radius. Short of notching the bridge saddles myself, I'm guessing that more relief is my best option, but I wanted to check here before touching it.

 

[dc007]

You would adjust the bridge saddles by changing the depth of the slot.....pretty slow meticulous work but not hard.

Perhaps you have a high fret???

 

[gibletpie]

Thanks dc007. I suppose a high fret is possible. Although it would only be high in the middle, I guess. As for the bridge saddles, I imagine I would change the depth of the slots on the 4 strings which aren't buzzing. In which case I would then either raise the bridge or add more relief to eliminate buzzing on all the strings. So it seems to me that I should be able to do one or both of those things now and eliminate the buzzing, although the individual string heights might not yet be ideal (assuming, of course, that a high fret is not the problem).

 

[Black58]

I've often found most things in life that are "recommended", to be boring or truly dangerous.

 

[dc007]

If you are comforable with the action and it is intonating properly then the setup is good. I am in the camp of recommended can sometimes be dangerous as well, however I do use recommended as a starting point on neck relief. Action (string height) is set to my liking. So if the string height you have set by adjusting the bridge thumbwheels is to your liking then you have possibly a high fret or bridge slots and/or nut slots a little too deep on the D and G strings..... perhaps a little more relief would solve the issue but I would get the frets leveled and set it up again. Fret leveling is not too expensive. Andyou know just a little buzz is not really a bad thing as long as it is sounding properly plugged up.

Thanks dc007. I suppose a high fret is possible. Although it would only be high in the middle, I guess. As for the bridge saddles, I imagine I would change the depth of the slots on the 4 strings which aren't buzzing. In which case I would then either raise the bridge or add more relief to eliminate buzzing on all the strings. So it seems to me that I should be able to do one or both of those things now and eliminate the buzzing, although the individual string heights might not yet be ideal (assuming, of course, that a high fret is not the problem).

 

[Wally]

You have a 12" radius fretboard--probably---running against a 15" radius bridge. Proper radiusing of the bridge allows one to set the outside strings at the desired action height without incurring fret buzz on the inside strings. Never have I seen a Gibson with a bridge radius that matches the fretboard radius as it should. Those saddles have to be worked with files just as the nut slots are worked if you want the guitar to feel and act properly. I have seen soem SG's recently that have flatter boards...14-15"; but even then the radius across the bridge is not correct...the slots still have to be worked for the strings that are chosen by the player.

 

[gibletpie]

You have a 12" radius fretboard--probably---running against a 15" radius bridge. Proper radiusing of the bridge allows one to set the outside strings at the desired action height without incurring fret buzz on the inside strings. Never have I seen a Gibson with a bridge radius that matches the fretboard radius as it should. Those saddles have to be worked with files just as the nut slots are worked if you want the guitar to feel and act properly. I have seen soem SG's recently that have flatter boards...14-15"; but even then the radius across the bridge is not correct...the slots still have to be worked for the strings that are chosen by the player.

I think you nailed it here, Wally. Today I found a printable Radius Gauge online and checked the bridge radius against the end of the fretboard and it is way off. I downloaded Dan Erlewine's How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great and plan to get some files and work on those saddles.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

[Wally]

I apprenticed under Bryan Galloup, who worked for Dan E. for 5 years before buying the shop from Dan before Dan went to work for STew Mac. Some feel that the radius at the bridge can be flatter than the fretboard radius....I have even read Dan saying so. I tend to disagree unless the player is a slide player. Then, there can be a need to compromise on the set-up to accommodate the need for a flatter radiusat the bridge. I probably prefer to use a curved slide in soem of those cases rather than compromise on the feel for fretted playing, though.
I personally play Corriciadan bottles for slide and find no problem with matched radius situation except for 7.5 and 9 inch radius necks....adn then only when going for 3-or-more note chords with the slide.

 

[gibletpie]

I apprenticed under Bryan Galloup, who worked for Dan E. for 5 years before buying the shop from Dan before Dan went to work for STew Mac. Some feel that the radius at the bridge can be flatter than the fretboard radius....I have even read Dan saying so. I tend to disagree unless the player is a slide player. Then, there can be a need to compromise on the set-up to accommodate the need for a flatter radiusat the bridge. I probably prefer to use a curved slide in soem of those cases rather than compromise on the feel for fretted playing, though.
I personally play Corriciadan bottles for slide and find no problem with matched radius situation except for 7.5 and 9 inch radius necks....adn then only when going for 3-or-more note chords with the slide.

Very interesting! I've been dabbling with slide for the last month and definitely plan on doing a lot more with it. This is definitely a consideration. Now I'm thinking I might buy a replacement bridge radiused at 12 and keep the original (15) around just in case--though, like you, I don't see the 12 being a problem in the long run. But it will lower the action on the outside strings a bit and don't want to buy another guitar just for slide right now.

 

[gibletpie]

I raised the action just a hair for the time being and that solved the slight buzzing problem and improved the tone on those two middle strings, though it seems like I can feel the difference in the action, even as slight as the change was.

Now my curiosity is aroused. If I were to leave the bridge radius at (presumably) 15, should the radius of the bridge pickup pole pieces match the fretboard at 12 (it was set up that way when I bought it), or the bridge at 15? Seems to me it should match the bridge radius...

 

[gibletpie]

Just an update for anyone who may be interested:

I added a bit more relief to the neck, basically using the D string as a straight edge instead of the low E, then I lowered my action back down to standard with no buzzing. I will definitely try a 12" radius bridge at some point to see what all the hype is about, but it doesn't feel as imperative with my guitar playing quite well at present.

Now I have to tweak the intonation a bit and I'm off to the races.

 

[Wally]

FWIW and ime, unless a neck has problems, it really doesn't matter which string one uses to judge relief.

 

[gibletpie]

FWIW and ime, unless a neck has problems, it really doesn't matter which string one uses to judge relief.

For whatever reason, with mine there's a slight difference between the low E and the D in terms of how far away they sit from the strings, holding at the 2nd and 16th frets. Judging by the D string, I needed a bit more relief. Only a hair, but enough.

 

[frenchphil]

this is to technical for me but very interesting!

how do you guys do all this tech work yourself? this amazes me

this is a job for a luthier , in my humble opinion

congrats to you for daring and taking time to learn those set up

so many things to think of: radius saddles relief action frets nut

i'll have a stupid guess: if you have a buzz on the d and g strings, beetween the 5th and 7th fret

could it be a twisted neck??

could it be some kind of bump in the fingerboard caused by the truss rod

just a guess

 

[ptrickamp222]

A long time ago I bought Dan E.'s book A Guitar Player's Repair Guide. I just found it in the book case and the date in the front is 1990!!!!! My how time fly's. This book is a must for the player setting up his own guitar. Go to the store that sells good rulers and straight edges and you're on your way. I have a 2 ft, 1 ft. and 6 in ruler/straight edge. And also the work on my Vintage gutars that I do not do myself I watch my Top of the Line Luthier on what he does so to learn from the best. That book is a must and can probably be bought on Ebay for like's to nothing and will really give you a head's up on how a neck is supposed to be. Then again I bought a brand new Gibson 2005 TV special and could not get it to my liking. Took it to Mark and it needed a new nut!!!! Brand new from the Custom shop and needed a new nut......Chapped my loinage.......So Bone nut and pure nickle strings.....and suck it up.:wah My 2 cents.

 

[gibletpie]

Yeah, I live in Brazil and LPs are not that common around here and really expensive to boot. So there's nobody I trust to work on it for me and replacement parts take a long time to get here from the US. So I do it myself, and all in all, I'd rather. I want to be able to set my guitars up exactly the way I want them.

I'm ordering a Tonepros bridge that should be in around March. Hope I like it as much as everyone indicates I will.

 

[juniorspecial]

Can the fret buzz be heard through the amp? That seems to be another point Dan E. makes in his writing. Something along the lines of "if you can't hear the problem through the amp, it's probably not a problem"

 

[gibletpie]

Yeah, it could. And even on a few of the frets where you couldn't hear a buzz, the tone of the string was dampened by being too close to the frets.