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Shop royally messed up refret job - Let them correct the error or find a better one?

Hyperion

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2023
Messages
3
Good evening guys,

Long story:
I recently had one of my guitars (Les Paul Tribute) refret on a shop I had heard good things about.

I asked them to refret it with Jescar Stainless Steel (Jumbo due personal preference). By factory, the guitar has a 12'' Radius and 22 Medium Jumbo Nickel frets
The guitar came back, I paid the usual "extra" fee for being stainless steel, etc...

A few weeks ago I noticed there was some space beneath the frets (right in the middle).
Given that the space was in the middle and not the edges, I knew this wasn't a case of badly seated frets, but different radius, so I measured the frets and they all measure 10'' instead of 12''. I searched for a bag they gave me containing three extra frets which also had a Jescar business card with the details. Of course, it said "10'' radius, pre-cut, Jumbo frets"...

First of all, how does one "mistakenly" install 10'' frets? Didn't he have to select the 10'' tools and leveling blocks? How do you commit a mistake (at least) three times?
I know with nickel you can use 10'' fretwire and press it down, but with stainless steel that is not the case. They charged a lot more for being stainless steel, so how the fuck did he not use the proper procedure with stainless steel?

I took the guitar back to the shop to see if they assumed the error - they didn't. I was as polite and calm as one can be, as I knew being agressive would certainly get me nowhere. Nevertheless, the owner was a bit rude and started arguing that the frets weren't the wrong radius, as I claimed.
I came prepared not only with the gauge but also with the Jescar card stating 10''. Only then he backed down. He told me he would give me a call.

A few hours later, he sends me a message saying "10'' radius isn't a standard radius. I've ordered fretwire to be cut and will let you know when it arrives for you to bring the guitar for a refret".

Now, besides using the wrong frets, the refret job seemed to also be kinda sloppy. I can see left out glue in the fretboard (altough nothing substancial) and some scratch marks from what I assume are from removing the sharp fret ends.

If you were in my position, would you risk letting this store fix their mistake (for free)?
Or would you search for a better luthier, even though you would have to pay for the refret again?

Thank you for your patience, I know this was a long one..
 

charliechitlins

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,021
Stainless is very springy stuff.
I have not used it yet, but over the length of a fret (a couple inches), the difference between a 10 and 12" radius is very small.
On standard frets it's typical to use a slightly tighter radius fret, as it helps the tangs grab more tightly.
It makes sense that a tech would apply this to SS frets, but maybe you can't do this.
I would THINK 10" radius would work on a 12" board, but...damn...maybe not.
I'm going to look into this.
Did they try seating the existing frets?
I would imagine you'd have to whack (or press) them a little harder, and maybe the tech isn't used to SS.
As for whether you should let them try again...that's a tough call.
Nobody wants bad work, and nobody wants to pay twice.
Amazing how many times we hear about a "shop with a good reputation" or a "well-regarded luthier" etc. doing crummy work.
It's rough out there.
 

Hyperion

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2023
Messages
3
Stainless is very springy stuff.
I have not used it yet, but over the length of a fret (a couple inches), the difference between a 10 and 12" radius is very small.
On standard frets it's typical to use a slightly tighter radius fret, as it helps the tangs grab more tightly.
It makes sense that a tech would apply this to SS frets, but maybe you can't do this.
I would THINK 10" radius would work on a 12" board, but...damn...maybe not.
I'm going to look into this.
Did they try seating the existing frets?
I would imagine you'd have to whack (or press) them a little harder, and maybe the tech isn't used to SS.
As for whether you should let them try again...that's a tough call.
Nobody wants bad work, and nobody wants to pay twice.
Amazing how many times we hear about a "shop with a good reputation" or a "well-regarded luthier" etc. doing crummy work.
It's rough out there.
I've been asking people (non musicians) the following analogy:

"If you paid $300 to get your tires swaped and found out the mechanic installed big bike wheels on your car, would you trust the guy to fix this "mistake" if you knew the process hypothetically wore down your wheels by a lot? Or would you leave a bad review and find someone else even if that costs another $300 dollars?"

So far everyone has gone with option B without much thought...
 

charliechitlins

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
1,021
I've been asking people (non musicians) the following analogy:

"If you paid $300 to get your tires swaped and found out the mechanic installed big bike wheels on your car, would you trust the guy to fix this "mistake" if you knew the process hypothetically wore down your wheels by a lot? Or would you leave a bad review and find someone else even if that costs another $300 dollars?"

So far everyone has gone with option B without much thought...
I hear that.
But the OP implies that the work done was not too bad and, maybe given the chance to redeem themselves, could do a proper job.
I understand the other side, though.
The idea of sending a fret job out with frets not properly seated could be a deal breaker for any future work.
I don't understand the deal with all these people sending out sub-standard work.
If I sent a job like that, I would not expect the customer to return.
Stainless frets are under $20 for the wire.
The shop should just give the guy his money back.
The only actual cash they would be losing is the $20 for the frets.
 

Hyperion

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2023
Messages
3
I hear that.
But the OP implies that the work done was not too bad and, maybe given the chance to redeem themselves, could do a proper job.
I understand the other side, though.
The idea of sending a fret job out with frets not properly seated could be a deal breaker for any future work.
I don't understand the deal with all these people sending out sub-standard work.
If I sent a job like that, I would not expect the customer to return.
Stainless frets are under $20 for the wire.
The shop should just give the guy his money back.
The only actual cash they would be losing is the $20 for the frets.
OP here.

I've decided to file an official complaint against the store and leave a negative public review (and take my guitar somewhere else).
The confidence in their work has dropped to zero by know, and honestly, $300, while a lot of money, doesn't pay the anxiety knowing they can fuck up something else, considering they are now even doing it for free without any "monetary motivation".

I'm going to be honest on the review and say they offered to correct the problem, but I'll also state that this wasn't "mistake", as 10'' tools had to be used in several phases (pre-cut frets, pressing down and leveling).
I'll also strongly state that a refret wears the fretboard by a lot, and for that reason, I won't trust them for correcting the problem even if free of charge.
 

zacknorton

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
731
No way would I give them another chance. unless they were sufficiently embarrassed and were bending over sideways to promise you an awesome fret job.

That's not something that should be sent out the door. C'mon!!
If you can see the gap with your naked eye??? that sounds like total hack work.

Which means: 1) the guy was hoping you wouldn't notice. 2) didn't notice it himself or 3) didn't care

none of those is an acceptable degree of slop with fretwork.

find someone who likes working with SS frets. it's not that much of a problem.
 

Dilver

Active member
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Messages
114
I do my own fret jobs and what you’re describing just seems schlocky. While it is common practice to have frets be a little over radiused to ensure the ends seat well, using precut/pre radiused frets doesn’t allow for this and the shop should have both fretwire lengths and a radius bending tool in the shop. You’re right in bringing your business elsewhere, but try ask to see examples of their fretwork and speak to the person that actually does the work. Some shops do an amazing job, and some barely know what they‘re doing.
 

El Gringo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
5,657
OP you did the right thing in how you have handled this royal screw up . I guess this shop does not pay attention to details in there customers work which customer pay for there services . Best wishes OP and please report back .
 

Dave P

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
976
Stainless frets need to be bent to the exact radius of the board. No overbending, or you could have problems with the middle of the fret popping up. They are not forgiving like nickel frets.
 
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