Tail piece height on "75 LP Custom?

[ihate100bees]

Hi,
Is there an average height or preferred pitch, for setting the Tail Piece on a '75 Les Paul Custom? Currently I have it sitting flat on the body. The pitch is pretty great. The Bridge height between the body and the bottom of the thumb screw, is about a 1/4" . It does play tighter than I would like and I know if I raise the tail piece, it will loosen (and play easier) the tension over al,l on the strings. It's strung with D'Addaria 10 -46 wound strings.

I read from an older repair guide that it's "proper" to raise the tail piece until the strings just clear the body of the Bridge? Currently it's much lower that that. I've heard all the opinions about more sustain, tone, etc... if the tailpiece sits flat on the body, but I'm not sure I'm really hearing or feeling that. So... just wanted to see if there was a certain height or pitch that I should try and set the tail piece. Thanks!

 

[gitmohair]

You'll get as many opinions as there are stop bars out there :/ If using a conventional SB I go for the same break angle over the bridge as behind the nut. This may not always be possible of course. HOWEVER I use the Lightning Guitars SBs anyway and just bolt 'em down.

 

[Bob Womack]

The bridge height is a variable. Gibson has a degree of quality control on the geometry, the angle, between the neck and body. This has been tight at times and loose at times. If the angle is too high, the method for compensating was to raise the bridge. It is as simple as that. You can desire a low bridge, but the time to make that decision is when you are shopping. Joe Walsh prefers guitars with the bridge down snug against the body. Once you have a guitar, you must adjust the action based upon the physical facts. Literally, you have to ignore bridge height other than setting it based on neck angle.

Now the other sides of the equation:
The truss rod setting is not used to adjust the relief in the neck, not to adjust action. Strings deflect side-to-side most when they vibrate at the center of their span. The truss rod is to provide an optimum amount of space at that center of the span for the string to vibrate. That is typically about the thickness of a modern, slim business card. You hold down the string at either the first and thirteenth frets or the second and fourteenth fret and use the card between the fifth fret and the string to measure and adjust to spec.

Once you have relief se, it is time to consider bridge and nut height. I don't have my guitars here but here is how they are set: I do a lot of bending on electric so my luthier doesn't set the action as low as possible. If the strings are too low, you don't get enough "bite" in your fingers to feel secure in a bend, so you go semi-low.

There's more related to level frets, but we can get to that.

Bob

 

[dwagar]

The angle on my old '74 Custom was sharp enough, with the tail piece decked, that over the years the bridge had collapsed.

After I repaired the bridge, I started top wrapping that guitar.

 

[seafood]

Try the top wrap !!! You might like it !! And it's easy to do.

 

[GlassSnuff]

You'll get as many opinions as there are stop bars out there :/ If using a conventional SB I go for the same break angle over the bridge as behind the nut. This may not always be possible of course. HOWEVER I use the Lightning Guitars SBs anyway and just bolt 'em down.

This is what I do, and yes, it feels a bit slinkier, though I can't explain it unless it's due to less friction over the saddles.

With your string set, you've got about 140 lbs. of pull on those studs. If that doesn't make them tight, screwing them down against the body won't help.

The angle on my old '74 Custom was sharp enough, with the tail piece decked, that over the years the bridge had collapsed.

After I repaired the bridge, I started top wrapping that guitar.

This does happen, so make sure to raise it at least enough to clear the bridge.

 

[ihate100bees]

The angle on my old '74 Custom was sharp enough, with the tail piece decked, that over the years the bridge had collapsed.

After I repaired the bridge, I started top wrapping that guitar.

What is Top Wrapping and how do you do it? I've never heard of this.
Thanks.

 

[Bob Womack]

What is Top Wrapping and how do you do it? I've never heard of this.
Thanks.

When you top wrap, you insert the string into the tailpiece from the bridge side, then wrap it over the tailpiece structure to then go over the bridge and up to the nut. it. It allows you to set the tailpiece lower and is usually thought to make the strings feel more flexible than when the strings are run in from the rear of the guitar.

Bob

 

[gitmohair]

Or use one of these:

Lightning Guitars

lightningguitars.com

lightningguitars.com

 

[dwagar]

What is Top Wrapping and how do you do it? I've never heard of this.
Thanks.

Here's a pic of my old '74 LPC with the top wrap. You can tell how steep the angle would be if it wasn't top wrapped.

I'd rather not top wrap unless I think it's required.

 

[seafood]

I have two old Les Pauls ....One I top wrap....and the other i don't !!!!!! They both play super great too !!

 

[seafood]

I have two old Les Pauls ....One I top wrap....and the other i don't !!!!!! They both play super great too !!

 

[GlassSnuff]

Here's a pic of my old '74 LPC with the top wrap. You can tell how steep the angle would be if it wasn't top wrapped.

I'd rather not top wrap unless I think it's required.

Especially with the gold plating...

 

[J T]

Hi,
Is there an average height or preferred pitch, for setting the Tail Piece on a '75 Les Paul Custom? Currently I have it sitting flat on the body. The pitch is pretty great. The Bridge height between the body and the bottom of the thumb screw, is about a 1/4" . It does play tighter than I would like and I know if I raise the tail piece, it will loosen (and play easier) the tension over al,l on the strings. It's strung with D'Addaria 10 -46 wound strings.

I read from an older repair guide that it's "proper" to raise the tail piece until the strings just clear the body of the Bridge? Currently it's much lower that that. I've heard all the opinions about more sustain, tone, etc... if the tailpiece sits flat on the body, but I'm not sure I'm really hearing or feeling that. So... just wanted to see if there was a certain height or pitch that I should try and set the tail piece. Thanks!

The height of the tailpiece determines the downforce of the strings on the bridge.
Gibson spec is seventeen degrees from the back of the bridge to the front of the tailpiece. That comes to around four and a half pounds of downforce pressure at the bridge saddles.

I worked out the downforce a while back and here is the work.

 

[gitmohair]

Gibson spec is seventeen degrees from the back of the bridge to the front of the tailpiece.

Which is pretty much what I said in post #2. Your calculation's cool btw. A big issue for owners of older guitars, though, is the forward pressure on the tail piece studs and the potential damage that leverage may cause. That's to some extent mitigated by reducing the height of the stop bar, which is one reason why people top wrap even if they're not claiming any "feel" benefit in top wrapping. Alternative SBs are another option here.

 

[J T]

Which is pretty much what I said in post #2. Your calculation's cool btw. A big issue for owners of older guitars, though, is the forward pressure on the tail piece studs and the potential damage that leverage may cause. That's to some extent mitigated by reducing the height of the stop bar, which is one reason why people top wrap even if they're not claiming any "feel" benefit in top wrapping. Alternative SBs are another option here.

Yes, nut leaning bridge is not good.

It just comes down to as the break angle increases, so does the downforce pressure at the saddle. That would just speed up bridge collapse along with palm pressure and playing style.

 

[Cholo]

The angle on my old '74 Custom was sharp enough, with the tail piece decked, that over the years the bridge had collapsed.

After I repaired the bridge, I started top wrapping that guitar.

Brother, I did the EXACT same thing on the EXACT same guitar, a white 74' Custom. Bridge collapsed and my luthier told me why this happened and suggested top wrapping specifically to alleviate the downward pressure. Been doing it ever since.

PS. My replacement bridge was a FABER ABR-1 Tone-Lock Aged Gold Bridge. What a difference! Been buying FABER hardware ever since.