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The Collection: Rick Nielsen

jb_abides

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Apr 6, 2005
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10 years ago, that “Burst” and that split headstock “Explorer” would have caused this thread to be be shut down.
...

THIS! ................. OK, Boomer! :LOL:

Needless to say… I miss the old days 😆

As was often said: "In before the lock..."

Seriously, this provoked great posts. Proof the ol' gurl, she ain't dead yet!
 

FelixWalfisch

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I just stumbled on an advertisement with the split headstock Explorer owned by Rick Nielsen. It seems like it went through Willie's Guitars in St. Paul which would be matching since he said that he got it from Minnesota.

Edit: Just asked for permission to post it here, thanks to Andy :)


Quelle Rick Nielsen.jpg
 
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marshall1987

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This is tough to answer and simply seeing pictures from 10 feet away makes it even more difficult to determine truths. Of only 19 Explorers to ship in 1958 only one was thought to have shipped with a split headstock. That has been known in the vintage world for years (since the mid 70s?) and was Rick Deringers guitar pictured above. About 20 years ago, Rick Nielsen purchased his split headstock with no real provenance and unknown to the vintage world. So it’s very easy to discount the likelihood of being real, or as being a replica before it’s even inspected. Some will hone in on how the logo was applied (straight vs slanted) as being suspect. And that may actually be a tell or not. Rick had asked a few replica builders if they knew of this guitar or built it, but no one seems to claim the build, which helps feed the mystery of it’s authenticity. It’s also super clean, but so is his 8-1008, so again not conclusive.

I have not inspected the guitar, so I can not personally state any facts about it other than what Rick has said publically about it as well as to mutual friends. With that said, I have documented a couple real explorers as well as collaborated with others who have too, and I can say for a fact, that the earlier serial number ones differ a bit form the later serial number ones which indicates some evolution during that first batch. There are two different size back plates, also some with round switch back plates others without and two different ways that round back plate was implemented, possibly split headstock (or not?) vs hockey stick etc. And to make it more confusing, at least one claimed to have a 59 ink stamp and possibly one or two with indented/stamped serial number and sold in the early sixties.

That may be a long way around saying, until someone with some experience inspects the Rick N split headstock explorer, we are all just guessing based pics, videos and hearsay.
Evidence refuting the authenticity of Rick's alleged 1958 split-headstock Explorer, S/N 8 1957, has surfaced. That serial number belongs to a sunburst 1958 Les Paul Junior according to the FOR SALE tag pictured in the photo below. The photo shows a vintage 1958 Les Paul Junior, S/N 8 1957, which was offered for sale at a guitar show back in May 2017 (photo's date), for an asking price of $6,750.

BTW, I own a sunburst 1958 Les Paul Junior, S/N 8 1956, which is exactly one number below the '58 Junior in the photo.
 

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marshall1987

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So, there’s a lot going on with it that’s just not right. There are also several other gorgeous guitars in that collection super legit. It’s just that a guitar giving off million dollar guitar vibes, will turn heads and generate discussion.
The fact that he was willing to share it with the rest of us armchair quarterbacks is very much appreciated.
However; it doesn’t change the fact that some pieces aren’t exactly what they appear to be. And in both Mark’s and RN’s defense, they treaded lightly around those pieces.
They could have been a bit more upfront about it IMO though.

Without getting into nuanced details that would only help more of these being made for the wrong reasons; the tailpiece angle alone being crooked, the wrong way, is the most obvious wrong detail from afar. The pickguard is the wrong shape (if you know you know) and wrong amount of plys. Same goes for his “second spare “original” guard” which appears to be white on both sides.
The headstock is too thick. You can tell this from how stubby the tuner posts barely protrude. Or, from the fact that it looks too thick.
Gibson, in all of my years of working on and dissecting vintage Gibsons of all stripes from that era, never ever ever built with a thicker than spec headstock.
The guitars edge radius also isn’t period, nor is it correct to all other known ‘58 Exp’s. Too sharp. This can be seen from a mile away.
neck angle is also too steep. You can see the bridge/tailpiece assembly reaching for the sky. And on and on.
When you know what to look for, you don’t need in-hand inspections.
Then, factor in the fact that its among the rarest of rare birds, 50’s Korina, an explorer, and a split headstock to boot, which doesn’t share any of the above features/anomalies with the other known split headstock one or any 50’s Solidbody… you just don’t wanna see all of these anomalies on an an already “sus” guitar, as the kids would say.

50’s Gibsons, while unique to a certain extent, all share very very common construction details. When those details aren’t there, alarm bells go off.

This footage is very well shot; Arguably better than anyones cell phone could take who’d be in the same room with these guitars; so that helps.

I’ll reiterate though, this footage was a real treat, wart’s and all.
Having an open discussion about it here, on a discussion forum about vintage Gibsons, is kinda what we do here. At least what we used to do. That shouldn’t offend anyone.
See my post # 104 for strong evidence refuting the authenticity of Rick's alleged '58 split-headstock Explorer, S/N 8 1957. That Serial Number belongs to a sunburst 1958 Les Paul Junior.
 

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Joe Desperado

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See my post # 104 for strong evidence refuting the authenticity of Rick's alleged '58 split-headstock Explorer, S/N 8 1957. That Serial Number belongs to a sunburst 1958 Les Paul Junior.
Not sure of that serial number. I heard Mark say the words 1957 in the video but as far as I know, Rick's Split Headstock SN is 8 2118. Still not saying is legit or not, but that serial number is in conflict to other sources.
 
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marshall1987

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Not sure of that serial number. I heard Mark say the words 1957 in the video but as far as I know, Rick's Split Headstock SN is 8 2118. Still not saying is legit or not, but that serial number is in conflict to other sources.
Go back and watch the video again.......around 37:49 in the video, Mark inspects the serial number of the alleged '58 split headstock Explorer. He can clearly be heard reading off the serial number; he distinctly says the following: "8 1957....with the split-V headstock". It's clear as day.
 

Joe Desperado

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Go back and watch the video again.......around 37:49 in the video, Mark inspects the serial number of the alleged '58 split headstock Explorer. He can clearly be heard reading off the serial number; he distinctly says the following: "8 1957....with the split-V headstock". It's clear as day.
If you read what I wrote, I said Mark said that.… but that is contrary to what I am aware of.
 

marshall1987

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Well....any way you slice it.....presenting Rick's "1958 split-headstock Explorer" as an authentic rare guitar, is a slap in the face, and mocks the owners who have acquired, at considerable expense, genuine vintage 1958 Explorers.
 

William Payne

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Aug 10, 2007
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I don't have the knowledge to comment on what people are talking about in the video but I am intentionally resurrecting this thread only because for those of us without access to the real guitars what is the best ways to at a high level learn what is required to know how to spot real vs fake? Some times things just don't look right but I really want to become knowledgeable about this kind of thing.

Also to give Rick credit when they discuss the split headstock explorer he does say that he wondered if it was a fake and that he isn't sure of its authenticity.
 
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