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The importance of pickup height!... GOTTA HAVE MORE CHIRP!.... Demo: '57 Goldtop, '69 Plexi, '69 G12H30 Cab

Ed A

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These forums compresses the photos too much causing it to look fuzzy. might want to try imgur or somthing that works with this place. What aftermarket pickups you think are the best for a Jimmy Page tone?
Depends on which era of Jimmy Page tone? Pre-1972 was two PAFs. And summer of ‘72 and later was a PAF in the neck and a T top in the bridge. Some companies like ReWind Electric which is a fave of mine offer both versions.
 

El Gringo

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Apr 8, 2015
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For years I played with them much closer, especially the bridge... more volume, more power, more drive... but in recent years I've been backing off, more clarity, more open, more character.... All I can tell you is what the approx pickup height is now using my calipers..... BUT, I know that its very different with each guitar... I had a reissue black beauty a couple years ago that I had to have them significantly farther away to reduce thickness and aggressiveness.... Measuring from the center of the pickup cover and depressing the string on the 22nd fret currently the bridge pickup is .1 inch on the low E side and .05 inch on the high E side.... and the neck pup is .15 inch on the low E side and .1inch on the high E side... Attached pix to show distance from strings.... but I would never go by where the pickup sits in the ring, because every LP I've had has slight neck angle differences... some of them the pickups have to be way above (or below) the rings to be at the same distance from the strings.View attachment 18016
You are not going to believe this Ed , but this is exactly how my Tech sets my pickups on my Les Paul . Even though I prefer them higher so the pickups can snarl oh No Mr. Tech has them set this exact way .
 

El Gringo

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My neck pickup is close to the 3/16 of an inch that you suggest. My bridge pickup is closer to an eighth of an inch and not the 3/16. I appreciate all of the scientific explanation but I do everything based on my ears as well and nothing else. I never go by suggested settings. I have moved the same PAF pickups from one guitar to another probably at least a dozen of them and every single guitar requires a different pickup height setting because every guitar responds differently. I too have had many people come over and set up their guitars for them and they have been extremely happy with the results. I generally have the bridge pickup slightly closer and not at the same distance as you suggest. Simply because the neck pickup overpowers with volume if it’s the same distance from the strings as the bridge pickup. Plus I find the ideal middle pickup tone to be best when the bridge is a bit closer than the neck. In any case that’s all based on my own ear and what I like to hear. I can crank those pickups up quite a bit closer to the strings and some other guy is going to say that sounds better because of how much louder and more overdriven the sound becomes. It ultimately comes down to your preferences. Believe me with my pickup heights I’ve got the maximum amount of harmonic content I can get out of the guitar. If I go too far away then the guitar lacks drive and is too weak for my taste. Too close and it’s too heavy and thick. I’ve set mine where I feel it’s just right.
OMG , you could be my tech as I had a Deja-Vu as this is what my tech does exactly . Pretty wild . This guy is like my "Dad"
 

Ed A

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You are not going to believe this Ed , but this is exactly how my Tech sets my pickups on my Les Paul . Even though I prefer them higher so the pickups can snarl oh No Mr. Tech has them set this exact way .
Cool.... but to be clear, those measurements are what I found because someone asked me for them... Otherwise I would have no idea what they are because as mentioned I set by ear not by ruler.... plus next week my tastes could change or I can play through another amp and out comes the screwdriver again for adjustment LOL!
 

El Gringo

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Cool.... but to be clear, those measurements are what I found because someone asked me for them... Otherwise I would have no idea what they are because as mentioned I set by ear not by ruler.... plus next week my tastes could change or I can play through another amp and out comes the screwdriver again for adjustment LOL!
I totally get it as my tech does it all by ear in looking for the sweetspot as you described in your post . Anyways there isn't a text book way or measurement for this . I hope I did not give the impression that I am or my tech is a robot set on some pre determined measurements or guidelines as my tech would have a bird if he knew I thought something like that . It's just so wild that I of course want the pickups higher up for maximum output and my avatar guitar (2018 Braz R9 ) was one that I monkeyed around with and had to learn the hard way that it does not work as there will be some issue .
 

DutchRay

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As I said in my post, the error of Gibson’s advice can easily be ascertained with one’s ears. I show this to almost every person who brings in a guitar for a setup. Their eyes go wide when I adjust the pickup away after showing them what the magnet is doing. After the adjustment, their guitar is already a better instrument …and they hear it. EVERY new Gibson is unplayable due to this pickup height error. Every other guitar that comes in is this way. The only pickups that can be run that close to the strings are pickups like active EMGs which have such weak magnetic fields that they do not affect the vibration of the string.
String pull with humbuckers? I agree this is a problem with single coils, but not with humbuckers, the magnet is simply to far from the strings and the poles aren't magnets as they are with (most) single coils.
 

Wally

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String pull with humbuckers? I agree this is a problem with single coils, but not with humbuckers, the magnet is simply to far from the strings and the poles aren't magnets as they are with (most) single coils.

The pole is an extension of the magnetic field. In fact, the reason to have adjustable poles is that one can set the height of a single pole and thereby adjust that magnetic field so as to accommodate different radii and different strings. The most dramatic exhibition of this is the difference between a wound G and a plain G. The plain G string has a greater effect in the magnetic field and therefore the pole should be left low. A wound G needs to have a tall G pole.
I first read of this in Guitar Player magazine almost 50 years ago in an article about vintage stagger Strat pickups, which were built for a wound Gstring. After Roy Buchanan threw the low E string away, shifted the other 5 strings down, and used a banjo string for the high E; this problem with the plain G string became a problem. I adjust ‘non-adjustable’ pole pickups to accommodate different radii and plain vs. would strings. I have been doing this for decades. There is one Strat that came with all six poles about 3/16” out of the bobbin. I adjust 5 poles on each pickup to achieve balanced output.
The only pickups that do not exert much magnetic force upon strings are the active pickups that use extremely weak magnets…..EMG for instance.
Many players want to get as much signal power as possible and therefor they will place the pickups very close to the string.
In fact, due to the magnetic pull that restricts the vibration of the string, at some point the output is decreased as well as having the frequency and harmonic content to be negatively affected. When the pickup is backed away to the minimum distance where the magnetic field allows free and accurate vibration, the guitar’s output is stronger, more articulate, and more musical. One can back the pickup farther away if one wants even more transparent sonics, but the pickup should not be placed closer than this minimum distance.
 

Ed A

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The pole is an extension of the magnetic field. In fact, the reason to have adjustable poles is that one can set the height of a single pole and thereby adjust that magnetic field so as to accommodate different radii and different strings. The most dramatic exhibition of this is the difference between a wound G and a plain G. The plain G string has a greater effect in the magnetic field and therefore the pole should be left low. A wound G needs to have a tall G pole.
I first read of this in Guitar Player magazine almost 50 years ago in an article about vintage stagger Strat pickups, which were built for a wound Gstring. After Roy Buchanan threw the low E string away, shifted the other 5 strings down, and used a banjo string for the high E; this problem with the plain G string became a problem. I adjust ‘non-adjustable’ pole pickups to accommodate different radii and plain vs. would strings. I have been doing this for decades. There is one Strat that came with all six poles about 3/16” out of the bobbin. I adjust 5 poles on each pickup to achieve balanced output.
The only pickups that do not exert much magnetic force upon strings are the active pickups that use extremely weak magnets…..EMG for instance.
Many players want to get as much signal power as possible and therefor they will place the pickups very close to the string.
In fact, due to the magnetic pull that restricts the vibration of the string, at some point the output is decreased as well as having the frequency and harmonic content to be negatively affected. When the pickup is backed away to the minimum distance where the magnetic field allows free and accurate vibration, the guitar’s output is stronger, more articulate, and more musical. One can back the pickup farther away if one wants even more transparent sonics, but the pickup should not be placed closer than this minimum distance.
I agree with much of what you've said here.... What I disagree with is your statement earlier that my guitar can sound much better than it currently does with further pickup adjustment... I know full well the negative effects of having pickups too close and Im guilty of years ago doing that because you will get more volume and drive.... Much of this also has to do with HOW you play and what kind of music you play... I do not play clean, I played through tube amps cranked up for plexi levels of distortion.... I of course play clean when I roll my volume down on the guitar, but because when full up the amp is driving there is something to be said for pickups being closer because they hit the front end of the amp harder causing even more natural overdrive... if I was playing through a clean amp that may not be desirable.... but as Ive mentioned here through recent years even though I am playing the same style of music through cranked amps, I have pulled back on the pickups, for more character and clarity AND harmonics... but also there is a fine line with finding maximum harmonics. Which is very important to me.... and believe me I have adjusted my pickups a half turn up or down (as well as polepiece adjustments) until I get them set for maximum tone and harmonics........ Point being, I think if you were in my room listening you would agree for THIS guitar and these PAF pickups (remember strength of magnetism varies greatly even in passive humbuckers) that it sounds great. I can not accept that an exact pre determined measurement is the only choice for best tone.
 

SUPREME

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Cool.... but to be clear, those measurements are what I found because someone asked me for them... Otherwise I would have no idea what they are because as mentioned I set by ear not by ruler.... plus next week my tastes could change or I can play through another amp and out comes the screwdriver again for adjustment LOL!
So I finished watching your YouTube videos and caught that royal amp! How come royal doesn't make anymore demo videos or music?

Still in business?
 

Ed A

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So I finished watching your YouTube videos and caught that royal amp! How come royal doesn't make anymore demo videos or music?

Still in business?
So, my friend Eric owns Royal and is the builder of the amps.... BTW the amp was my idea many years ago and I help as the guy that deals with customers, etc... He never sold more than a dozen or so amps every year, with his other life commitments he just didnt have the time to build a bigger business and relied mostly on word of mouth and videos... and the amps especially the Hiwatt models are meticulously built and take time... to answer your question, the company is still in business but Covid has effected Royal greatly... maybe its because of the small company size but he has a lot of trouble getting parts, especially transformers... we've had an amp on the bench for over six months waiting for parts.... that combined with increased cost of parts, tubes (if you can find them) cabinets, etc... has caused him to have raise prices as well.... so he hasnt wanted to push the amps too much simply because of those issues.
 

SUPREME

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So, my friend Eric owns Royal and is the builder of the amps.... BTW the amp was my idea many years ago and I help as the guy that deals with customers, etc... He never sold more than a dozen or so amps every year, with his other life commitments he just didnt have the time to build a bigger business and relied mostly on word of mouth and videos... and the amps especially the Hiwatt models are meticulously built and take time... to answer your question, the company is still in business but Covid has effected Royal greatly... maybe its because of the small company size but he has a lot of trouble getting parts, especially transformers... we've had an amp on the bench for over six months waiting for parts.... that combined with increased cost of parts, tubes (if you can find them) cabinets, etc... has caused him to have raise prices as well.... so he hasnt wanted to push the amps too much simply because of those issues.
Oh yeah I totally get it on the parts and pricing situation. I've been having a hard time finding 12ax7 for weeks now. Would be cool if Eric just recorded with a cell least talking about the amps. Super kudos for coming up with the idea, wouldn't mind getting one of these amps myself.
 

El Gringo

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Nope. not even close... when depressing the low E string at the 22nd fret there is still at least 1/16 "... couldnt get it to show in the photo
So no buzzing with the pickup being so close ?
 

Any Name You Wish

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Very interesting post. I adjust pickups slightly to gain a better volume balance and better tone, but I never really thought about the chirp. I've always thought the chirp had more to do with how the pick hits the wound strings. If your pick is on and angle it will slide slightly across the wound string (and it will wear along that edge too) and create the chirp. Hold the pick more straight in and not much chirp. I'll have to experiment with this to verify. I do agree having the pickup too close to the string can hurt the tone quite a bit.
 

SUPREME

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These are Madison Square Garden 1973 specific...(post April 1972 tone)
73 sound not my cup of tea but I do like Eric from Royal guitar tone. I'm guessing he's using the real deal pickups aka vintage stuff to achieve his tone. I've watched your video and you play out of a music man amp so what does those pickups sound out of a Marshall as most of us have one?
 

Bryansamui

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73 sound not my cup of tea but I do like Eric from Royal guitar tone. I'm guessing he's using the real deal pickups aka vintage stuff to achieve his tone. I've watched your video and you play out of a music man amp so what does those pickups sound out of a Marshall as most of us have one?
Well, I've got a new( just bought) NUX Modeler..That has a Plexi model on it, that in an A/B test people can't 'reliably' tell from a real one, and on that model it translates well..
 
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