• Guys, we've spent considerable money converting the Les Paul Forum to this new XenForo platform, and we have ongoing monthly operating expenses. THE "DONATIONS" TAB IS NOW WORKING, AND WE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY DONATIONS YOU CAN MAKE TO KEEP THE LES PAUL FORUM GOING! Thank you!

THE SKY IS FALLING!

Three13

Member
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
852
Given the proliferation of threads about fakes, I have a pertinent question for the people here who have ACTUALLY bought and sold more than FIVE (5) bursts in their lives.

How many of you believe that the problem of replicas and conversions being sold as bursts has become a major issue in deals involving EXPERIENCED buyers and sellers of vintage Les Pauls?

To clarify, if you get rid of the too-good-to-be-true deals that crop up involving BS stories and naïve/unschooled buyers, is this a significant issue in arm’s-length deals involving top-tier professionals?

If the consensus is no, we all need to take a deep breath and realize that we're behaving like idiots; there will always be gullible, greedy people who get ripped off because they refuse to do their due diligence (not just with bursts or collectibles, but with anything that costs a lot of money).

While this reality is unfortunate, there are plenty of experts out there who are fairly easy to locate with a simple internet search – these forums have certainly made it possible to find a few respected individuals. In most cases, I suspect that the top-tier professionals can identify the real article in person, and if this is true, there’s really no excuse to get taken in by the fakes that seem to be getting everyone’s panties in a bunch around here.

Looking at the boards lately, I feel like all I can see is a bunch of screeching old ladies, convinced that the end is nigh. At the same time, I don’t see a lot of real aficionados getting burned.

I know it’s important to get the word out that there are deceptive fakes making the rounds, but we seem to be focused on the fraudulent offerings and ignoring the fact that the fakes that have been identified were actually IDENTIFIED. Experts - often on this forum - have been able to ascertain that there was something wrong them.

True, every time a fake gets offered as genuine, it is bad for the business, but the fact that so many have been outed is really an argument that things are working.

PLEASE – IF YOU HAVEN’T ACTUALLY HANDLED SEVERAL GENUINE BURST TRANSACTIONS, JUST READ THE THREAD – I THINK EVERYONE HERE WOULD BENEFIT FROM REAL EXPERIENCE INSTEAD OF ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKING.

I haven't done the requisite amount of trading, so I will now shut my mouth and hope to learn something.
 

abalonevintage

Active member
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
3,186
How many of you believe that the problem of replicas and conversions being sold as bursts has become a major issue in deals involving EXPERIENCED buyers and sellers of vintage Les Pauls?

The problem was FAR worse when there were a pile of "investors" mixing it up from 2004-2006.

Since there is far less of those type buyers around, the problem is more passive.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
The problem was FAR worse when there were a pile of "investors" mixing it up from 2004-2006.

Since there is far less of those type buyers around, the problem is more passive.

Very true. The potential was higher.
With the Burst market seemingly in recovery, they affect is now more with potential "new" buyers.

But the idea that there will always be a problem, what with greed and human nature, it won't go away.
Con men are born everyday. :ganz
 

landminelenny

Les Paul Froum Member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
3,204
I've sold on average a burst a year for the last six years or so. 'Burst sales represent a very small portion of the guitar market. Those who deal in 'bursts are very unlikely to get hoodwinked because of their knowledge and experience, and as they continue to share and learn along with each other, I'd suggest the burst market is safe.
 
Last edited:

RAB

Active member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
2,122
Yes, a burst expert is unlikely to be fooled by a replica...one tends to develop a "6th sense" when evaluating vintage Gibsons...
 

lonesomesheik

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
1,217
Jesus T.B!!! He's holding a Goltop with Lollars!!! That's where the Love is!!! How's doin' by the way?:eek:la
 

Texas Blues

Active member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
4,641
Jesus T.B!!! He's holding a Goltop with Lollars!!! That's where the Love is!!! How's doin' by the way?:eek:la

Si Senor. Jesus loves goldtops.

Life is great.

Back to bursts....

I don't aspire to own one but if I did, there's plenty of cats right here on the forum that are in the know.

First guy I would holler at would be TW.
 

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,078
I would either buy a known burst (ie well circulated) or have two independent well known and respected experts examine any guitar of this value.
 

mbowen

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
5,022
When i was buying bursts i bought them from people i trusted.The Craig's list Burst purchasing program does not usually turn out well.Mike B.
 

CDaughtry

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner and Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Messages
12,646
No...it's never been a problem in my burst buying.:jim
 

Xpensive Wino

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
6,079
When i was buying bursts i bought them from people i trusted.The Craig's list Burst purchasing program does not usually turn out well.Mike B.

Did someone buy a purported 'Burst from a Craigslist ad? :hmm
 

mbowen

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
5,022
Did someone buy a purported 'Burst from a Craigslist ad? :hmm
There have been numerous bursts for sale on Craigslist over the years.99.99.99 % of them are frauds and scams and yes there have been people lost money by thinking they are buying someone's father's guitar."Dad just died and we have this old guitar he played in church in the 1950's a Gibson LP .We do not know what it is worth so we are starting at 5K." Hard to believe but some people get greedy and answer the add.One in a Million times the story may be true but i do not think you want to play with those odds.Mike B.
 

Xpensive Wino

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
6,079
There have been numerous bursts for sale on Craigslist over the years.99.99.99 % of them are frauds and scams and yes there have been people lost money by thinking they are buying someone's father's guitar."Dad just died and we have this old guitar he played in church in the 1950's a Gibson LP .We do not know what it is worth so we are starting at 5K." Hard to believe but some people get greedy and answer the add.One in a Million times the story may be true but i do not think you want to play with those odds.Mike B.

Surely a well-executed fugazi is worth $5K?:hmm

What does a Max or Derrig sell for, these days?
 

mbowen

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
5,022
Surely a well-executed fugazi is worth $5K?:hmm

What does a Max or Derrig sell for, these days?
No you miss the scam. You never get any guitar all you get is a e-mail photo of someone else's real burst--You have to wire the money after they send you a photo of a real burst from Burst serial or somewhere else on the net.You will be shipped the guitar as soon as the money clears.Remember this people are looking at a photo of a 200K burst for 5k and some get greedy and get burned.I know you say no one is that dumb but if scams did not work,the crooks would not keep pushing them.That is what i mean by the Craigs list method of burst buying -it is a joke yes but there are poor saps who do it .Mike B.
 
Last edited:

goldtop0

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
8,935
No yeti it's the highest percentage that the scammers can work with..........they can never get the perfect score:lol
 

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,462
No you miss the scam. You never get any guitar all you get is a e-mail photo of someone else's real burst--You have to wire the money after they send you a photo of a real burst from Burst serial or somewhere else on the net.You will be shipped the guitar as soon as the money clears.Remember this people are looking at a photo of a 200K burst for 5k and some get greedy and get burned.I know you say no one is that dumb but if scams did not work,the crooks would not keep pushing them.That is what i mean by the Craigs list method of burst buying -it is a joke yes but there are poor saps who do it .Mike B.

This was rampant for years on eBay with mics. Hijacked account, and somebody thinking they're really getting a U47 for only $3,000.
 
Top