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Valuable information to consider when evaluating the authenticity of a vintage burst

A

Arnold M.

Active member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
296
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Zapper said:
Blimey, you internet warriors make me giggle....! No I am NOT Gareth! He's far uglier than me for a start! But he did broker the guitar on behalf of Elite Guitars (who incidentally have an amazing collection). In fact one of the pics of The Nile (!) I posted was taken in his living room when I bought it last November.... and against which I part-exchanged my Wine Red '79 Custom. So very sorry, but no conspiracy. Jeeez you guys crack me up..!! :rofl

Incidentally having spoken to Gareth (and his boss) this morning, some of you need to get deleting comments about certain of their guitars being 'fake'... unless you particularly fancy a day in Court defending a libel & defamation rap. Could cost you a lot of dosh in damages and Court fees. They're apparently consulting solicitors as I type....
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:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
 
JJ Blair

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,462
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Zapper said:
I'm concerned about certain aspects, eg the chew, but now that Terry Mueller has an explanation for it I'm a little more relaxed. Not so worried about some of the other nonsense that people have come up with though...

Interesting that the two most respected and knowledgeable experts on this thread both think it's a genuine 'Burst... leaving the rest of you guys desperately trying to scrape egg off your faces...! How funny!

And as I've said about 5 times already, yes I will be contacting Gary W just as soon as I can find him. And yes I will be reporting back, whether good news or bad....
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Terry is not a Burst expert. You missed the heavyweights in here saying it's bullshit. BTW, Tom thought it was bullshit until Terry incorrectly identified that guitar, and made up some weird narrative with zero evidence. There are extreme heavyweights talking about this thread offline. They all say it's bullshit. So, all you have is Tom, who thought it was wrong until Terry said something silly, against EVERYBODY else. Vic thinking it's not real should be enough to tell you something, But you be you, homey.

BTW, look at the photo of my Burst's truss rod. Now tell me what's wrong with yours. Seriously, everything is wrong with that guitar, but you just can't see it, because you don't have the knowledge, and refuse to listen to people who do.

attachment.php
 
deytookerjaabs

deytookerjaabs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Messages
1,594
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

JJ Blair said:
BTW, look at the photo of my Burst's truss rod. Now tell me what's wrong with yours. Seriously, everything is wrong with that guitar, but you just can't see it, because you don't have the knowledge, and refuse to listen to people who do.
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Yeah, I don't know that there's much concern here on the part of the OP. Ya ever see a guy who bought a 1960 'Burst in the modern era jumping with joy to find out it's "real" after being told it's probably re-logo'd, refin'd, shaved headstock, shaved control cavity after paying the big bucks?


I commend all ye sleuthing :salude
 
Patek

Patek

Active member
Joined
Dec 4, 2015
Messages
419
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Zapper said:
Patek, it's a superb guitar to play and sounds great so why give it back? If I've paid a couple of grand over the odds for a 'replica' then so what... C'est la vie!
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I wouldn’t be happy with a couple of grand over payment.

a really really really good replica in the UK WITHOUT original salvaged vintage parts is maximum £10k to have made.

if you paid a couple of grand more than a non salvaged parts replica then that means you max paid between £10-£15k for this

For that kind of money, I would prefer a ‘real’ terry or gil or bartlett replica. At least you would know where you stand
 
Tom Wittrock

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
42,567
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

JJ Blair said:
Terry is not a Burst expert.
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Seriously!?! :wah

He is more of a Burst expert than anyone in this thread, except Vic perhaps.

Please state your "Burst credentials" that make you an "expert". I would sure like to hear this. :hmm
 
Ted Nugent

Ted Nugent

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
79
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Tom Wittrock said:
This is looking less and less like a legitimate Burst. :wah
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Until.

Tom Wittrock said:
After a nice and detailed conversation with Terry Mueller on this guitar, I am now agreeing with him, that this is a real 1960 Burst that has had some [not so vintage correct] work done to it.
He says the neck is reworked. Still the original neck but refinished and re-logo-ed. At that time the number was restamped.
The control cavity was also reworked and slightly enlarged. This got rid of the chew mark, made the edges [on top] thinner and also sharper on the edges [not the more rounded look we are used to].
He feels the back was refinished [and probably the sides].

I agree with Terry, who I trust 1000%.
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And you think Terry's explanation is reasonable?

Tom Wittrock said:
Seriously!?! :wah

He is more of a Burst expert than anyone in this thread, except Vic perhaps.
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Is that an attempt to discredit all the naysayers?

And what does Vic say? I guess you trust him 999%?

This is getting all too familiar. I seem to remember you defending Ganz to the hilt a few years back over those Sheldon guitars? Do you still trust him?

So the evidence amounts to nothing? It's all down to who you trust?
 
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Zapper

Zapper

Active member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Tom Wittrock said:
Seriously!?! :wah

He is more of a Burst expert than anyone in this thread, except Vic perhaps.

Please state your "Burst credentials" that make you an "expert". I would sure like to hear this. :hmm
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Totally agree Tom... I've heard and read very good things about Terry. He even works on 'star' instruments for Gruhn Guitars apparently, in which case he MUST know what he's talking about. With respect to the warriors, I think I'd rather listen to him and yourself (owner of more 'Bursts than God lol..!) than the nit-pickers... :)
 
2002standardmat

2002standardmat

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Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
1,152
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

This whole thing reminds me of when first cousins marry and have kids together... :hank
 
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Ken Fortunato

Ken Fortunato

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
2,742
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Ya gotta love the "Burst" era, (1958-1960)... It reads like an old McDonald's tagline, "Thousands Sold!", of approximately 1,406 made... :peace2 :peace2 :peace2
 
G

Garincha

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
385
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Tom Wittrock said:
Seriously!?! :wah

He is more of a Burst expert than anyone in this thread, except Vic perhaps.
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Tom, has Terry seen the picture of the truss rod cavity?

The shape and the location of the truss rod channel (at the nut end) is pretty unique because of the method used to drill it. Tom Bartlett explained at "the other forum" how this is being done (with a special tool). The result is pretty significant and kind of telltale.

I assume Terry has that knowledge as well and first hand (he worked for Gibson in Kalamazoo, no?), he might change his opinion about that guitar when being shown that picture.
 
Zapper

Zapper

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Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

KennyF said:
Ya gotta love the "Burst" era, (1958-1960)... It reads like an old McDonald's tagline, "Thousands Sold!", of approximately 1,406 made... :peace2 :peace2 :peace2
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Someone once told me they made about 1400 Bursts between 1958 and 1960, of which only about 2000 survive.... :rofl
 
fakejake

fakejake

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Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
1,290
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

I think its really cool that everyone kept their calm up to now!
There were a few jibes, but so far this excellent thread has not really gotten out of hand, as so many times before with similar discussions! :salude
 
Zapper

Zapper

Active member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

fakejake said:
I think its really cool that everyone kept their calm up to now!
There were a few jibes, but so far this excellent thread has not really gotten out of hand, as so many times before with similar discussions! :salude
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Only 'up to now' fakejake...? Is it starting to get a little tasty then..?! :)
 
S. Weiger

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
1,769
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

Zapper said:
Sweiger's gone quiet all of a sudden.... Looks great in that brown leather waistcoat though...!

And those beads JJ... outrageous..! :hee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeEbtiruH2Q
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Are you missing my input to your thread?
Thought you'd rather be without it. You obviously only choose to listen to the one (well maybe two) ppl that agree with you :wah

Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :)

I think you're right..
 
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