Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior years?

[VonPrikler]

Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior years?

Seems like the long-heel design began in 1966 (possibly very late '65?, at the earliest).

I know the long-heel design was tweaked again a couple of years after that... but even at that point, it was still a "long-heel" design, as opposed to the earlier design ('60-65).

So, my question is: was this "long-heel" design an "improvement"? Did it make the neck more structurally sound? Did it reduce the number of SGs with various "neck issues"? Did it have any impact (good or bad) on tone, playability, etc.?

In short... did Gibson "get it right" (or at least "more right"), starting with the long-heel design? They obviously felt it was worth it to do the re-design, but did it work out?

 

[j45]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

Good question and interested to see what some of the SG guys feel about the many different heel revisions. I've owned maybe two dozen two PU 60's SG's over the years, about 12 in the past 10 and many more if counting Jr's. IMO the long heel was not at all an improvement. I also believe it is the inherently thin body and placement of neck PU rout that weakens the neck joint region, not so much the heel which never seemed to make a whole lot of difference. I've always preferred the 64 heel for playabilty and strength but have no evidence that it is any less likely to fail. The late 60's joints to me are the most awkward.

 

[Kris Ford]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

It just shows that they knew the design was flawed..
If you can study 100% year verified examples, you'll see that the heel continuously evolves from '65, and there are clearly a couple variations of the long heel into early '69, with the "proto" long heel coming in '66 (later I'd say), then the flattened "D" shape, then the flattened triangular shape, not counting the minor variations due to being a hand cut, hand sanded operation. I'll post example pics when I'm not at work.:yah

 

[Kevin James]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

Personally I just never really cared for the long heel models... but that's just me.

 

[blueguitar]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

There is a thread from ´12 showing nice pictures:

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...ictures-of-Gibson-SG-heel-joints-year-by-year

Greetings!
Peter

 

[jackdonovan]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

I think the later necks look stronger and certainly more solid but I don't know whether it's much of an improvement in sound the impression given general they're not as good sound wise but this might be simply untrue or myth. maybe someone here can give a honest answer ... I have the earlier 63 64 typesThe idea the 64 sg was best is bandied around but the truth is debatable. Those earlier ones do seem to have an inherent weak point there in the neck to body joint.

Some of the sound clips and films of bands in the other thread like Soft Machine sound pretty dam good to me and the guitarist was playing a 69 custom sg from the looks of it.

 

[marshall1987]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

Seems like the long-heel design began in 1966 (possibly very late '65?, at the earliest).

I know the long-heel design was tweaked again a couple of years after that... but even at that point, it was still a "long-heel" design, as opposed to the earlier design ('60-65).

So, my question is: was this "long-heel" design an "improvement"? Did it make the neck more structurally sound? Did it reduce the number of SGs with various "neck issues"? Did it have any impact (good or bad) on tone, playability, etc.?

In short... did Gibson "get it right" (or at least "more right"), starting with the long-heel design? They obviously felt it was worth it to do the re-design, but did it work out?

You tell me.....

This is a photo of the neck joint on a 1968 SG Special. Yikes.

 

[Kris Ford]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

I think the later necks look stronger and certainly more solid but I don't know whether it's much of an improvement in sound the impression given general they're not as good sound wise but this might be simply untrue or myth. maybe someone here can give a honest answer ... I have the earlier 63 64 typesThe idea the 64 sg was best is bandied around but the truth is debatable. Those earlier ones do seem to have an inherent weak point there in the neck to body joint.

Some of the sound clips and films of bands in the other thread like Soft Machine sound pretty dam good to me and the guitarist was playing a 69 custom sg from the looks of it.

Lots of myth..had Clapton played a '69..well, you know where I'm going with that..:ganz
In a double bind test, me thinks not..
They're still BOTH Honduras mahogany and Pat# Sticker pickups, through 500K pots....('64 vs '69, even with T Tops in '69, still too similar IMSHO)

 

[jackdonovan]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

Lots of myth..had Clapton played a '69..well, you know where I'm going with that..:ganz
In a double bind test, me thinks not..
They're still BOTH Honduras mahogany and Pat# Sticker pickups, through 500K pots....('64 vs '69, even with T Tops in '69, still too similar IMSHO)

Yeah that's what I'm thinking too!

 

[Kris Ford]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

That Custom from the Soft Machine clip was a GREAT example. I hear THE SG sound, especially that neck pickup sizzle, if that makes sense..ONLY a SG does that to me..
I could see the distinct rounded club heel for '69..
THAT tone definitely did NOT suck.
That track is a beautiful piece of music..

 

[jackdonovan]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

certainly was a fine SG tone in the 69 custom clip from Soft Machine ... all the Soft Machine clips are masterfully played ... looking it up featuring guitarist John Etheridge and Allan Holdsworth at different times. The drums too superb.

The skill of the player clearly is the dominant force but tonewise it's all there in the instrument.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Was the '66+ SG long-heel neck-join design an "improvement" compared to prior yea

The additional heel wood (beyond the joint) does nothing really to help the strength of the joint but eliminates the fretboard "hump" when using heavier gauge strings.

PRS made this same change circa early 1990s. Some players don't like it but realistically it does little to make them less playable, but makes for a much sturdier neck, IMO.