Would you leave this 53 GT LP as it is if you bought it ?

[stock_hippie]

My girlfriend said, "It looks fine. It looks just like the one you have."

 

[sunburst1]

$10K for a butchered trapeze '53 Goldtop seems very high to me. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to find a piece like that and just play it as is, but it should only cost about 40 % of what a clean 100% original goes for, $6K to $6.5K tops, IMO.

Good luck finding an unbroken example with org. finish for that price. My guess is you won't anytime soon. Not saying its a great deal. Said it was a fair deal. Don't think that guitar is "butchered" either. What guitar are you looking at? It's far from "butchered" ,IMO,OMMV. :jim

 

[Greco]

mentioning Burst players and using it to justify this stuff is crazy, IMO.

How else do you explain sunburst-PAF-mania.

 

[Tom Wittrock]

How else do you explain sunburst-PAF-mania.

Looks, tone and playability. :salude

 

[Big Al]

The guitar is fine Tom. If I owned it I most likely put a Bigsby on it.

Nothing major wrong with it, other than the stop bar.

 

[Big Al]

Greco, I could not disagree more with your assumptions. Bro, koolaid don't fix mania.:ha

 

[jimmi]

How would a bigsby work with that neck angle? Can't use a abr, dog bone or wrap tail.

Fix the neck angle which means refinsh with repair of the incorrectly positioned tailpiece studs (which s bigsby could make sense to cover the area) or fill in the anchors, overspray the area and go back to a trap tail with a glazer type bridge.

 

[Greco]

Looks, tone and playability. :salude

Well tone and playability are much the same on a 57 GT. Looks, well I certainly saw the one that Jimmy Page was holding and thought it looked cool

 

[jimmi]

Some folks see a conversion candidate in every GT because there are a lot more GTs made than bursts, we aren't the goldtop preservation society, and there are a lot of weird things done to GTs with low neck angles to get them to be somewhat playable. Some guys think if they're going to get all that work done to make it as playable as it can be, then a little top refinish, or new pickups routes ain't going to hurt.

I think this point of view sells the p90 short. Both are great pickups. I might convert a really basket case guitar but probably not this one. I would do as little as possible. Fill the anchors, touch up the gold and put the trap back with a glazer bridge. Playable and as close to original as you could get at this stage.

 

[yeti]

I think this point of view sells the p90 short.

The best Les Paul tone I've ever heard was Daniel Lanois playing on "session at west 54th street", I think it was his first tune, I can't find it on youtube but he played a tune-o-matic P-90 equipped Goldtop through an AC-30, using his fingers and the sound was like a great acoustic guitar, just amplified. Really haunting complex tone. There is real magic in that maple/mahogany/P-90 combo that a PAF equipped guitar doesn't come close to, IMHO. They have their own thing going on for sure , just like a good firebird but a GT with P-90's is the only guitar that can rival a good Blackguard Tele in terms of liveliness and responsiveness.

 

[yeti]

Looks, tone and playability. :salude

I agree on looks but what Greco calls PAF mania is largely a product of herd mentality. Think about it, everybody that has been around these guitars long enough seems to agree that there is no such thing a PAF tone and playability-wise a PAF guitar doesn't have any edge whatsoever. How could it?

 

[yeti]

Good luck finding an unbroken example with org. finish for that price. My guess is you won't anytime soon. Not saying its a great deal. Said it was a fair deal. Don't think that guitar is "butchered" either. What guitar are you looking at? It's far from "butchered" ,IMO,OMMV. :jim

My quality of life won't be affected by me not finding one for 6k, I don't need any more guitars, but 10K is just totally ridiculous, IMO. I'd consider buying a fully original trap lester for 12-13K before I'd sink 10K into this guitar. it's butchered. There's no way to fully restore this guitar, there will always be evidence of modifications. and with the availability of Glaser mods the 100% original ones strike me as a way better bargain.
What seems to be driving these discussions is how much you could afford. "Look, you can get into vintage maple/mahogany territory for under 10K", blablabla. there are plenty of people who could afford any guitar they choose to, but they won't choose an overpriced issues-guitar regardless.

 

[JBLPplayer]

$10K for a butchered trapeze '53 Goldtop seems very high to me. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to find a piece like that and just play it as is, but it should only cost about 40 % of what a clean 100% original goes for, $6K to $6.5K tops, IMO.

I totally agree. I payed 11k for a mint 52. That's a 6k guitar with that bridge placement. :dude:

Joe B

 

[Big Al]

How would a bigsby work with that neck angle? Can't use a abr, dog bone or wrap tail.

Fix the neck angle which means refinsh with repair of the incorrectly positioned tailpiece studs (which s bigsby could make sense to cover the area) or fill in the anchors, overspray the area and go back to a trap tail with a glazer type bridge.

Take a look. It already has a Bigsby type bridge. I've played a few early goldtops like that with Bigsby's with no problem. The guitar seems to be in pretty good shape. I don't think neck angle would prove to be an issue. I would dogbone it and if need be the bridge can be ground down.

 

[brandtkronholm]

I would modify this '53 goldtop if I purchased it - but I would not convert it.

For my money - and that's going to be between $6.5K-$8.5K because $10K is a bit too much - I'd make it a real player's guitar just for me. I'd re-set the neck to the modern/classic angle and put either a stop tail or tune-o-matic & stop tail on it. I'd have whatever holes on top or side expertly repaired...at least filled with appropriate wood.

I think a neck re-set on the early goldtops is a perfectly acceptable alteration. I like to think that nearly all of the Stradivarius, Amati, etc, violins have had their necks replaced (over 100 years ago) so they can still be used to play modern music. In fact, they only replaced the necks; they grafted the original head stock (tuning pegs and scroll) onto the new neck.

I don't think a burst conversion (or even a '57 conversion) is the way to go with any of these early goldtops. Go get a new re-issue instead - they are all that and a bag of chips. The new wood is great!

If I was in the market for a sunburst style Les Paul, I'd get a new R8, R9, R0, CC, etc.

...but I'm not in the market...they buyer may do whatever they wish with the guitar...

 

[Cogswell]

It just seems to me that many folks see a conversion candidate in every GT...

I know I do! lol

 

[Frutiger]

I'd bigsby and dogbone it.

+1

 

[slimdave]

I totally agree. I payed 11k for a mint 52. That's a 6k guitar with that bridge placement. :dude:

Joe B

No offense meant Joe, but I'm quite sure than you can get better prices than most buyers. It's a matter of amount of purchased done and potential purchases. You're just buying more and better than most. So, I'm quite sure sellers treat you right. (At least that's what I would do if was a vintage guitar dealer)

 

[etzeppy]

No offense meant Joe, but I'm quite sure than you can get better prices than most buyers. It's a matter of amount of purchased done and potential purchases. You're just buying more and better than most. So, I'm quite sure sellers treat you right. (At least that's what I would do if was a vintage guitar dealer)

JB probably has a harder time getting a fair deal than the "average Joe".

 

[jimmi]

Take a look. It already has a Bigsby type bridge. I've played a few early goldtops like that with Bigsby's with no problem. The guitar seems to be in pretty good shape. I don't think neck angle would prove to be an issue. I would dogbone it and if need be the bridge can be ground down.

That is the mojax trap tail attachment. It is half the height of a dog bone bridge if the bridge was attached directly to the deck with no adjustment. I don't think there is anyway this guitar as is would work with a dog bone.