Nobody_G13
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2021
- Messages
- 20
Hello forum members!
I've been researching Gibson and Epiphone because of the talks of a new Jimmy Page #1 possibly coming out and I've found some startling stuff I want to share with you,hopefully to help you not get taken by false advertisement..
Lately there's been speculation of woods with Epiphone, apparently Epiphone isn't using what they tell us they are..
People started noticing when the headstocks would snap on their epiphones and what's underneath isn't mahogany or maple nor even related family woods, but rather olive wood, birch, poplar and Asian cherry varieties..
This is on guitars specifically billed to be maple, mahogany and so on..
A man in China purchased an Epiphone 1959 reissue for $825 usd but noticed something was off about his instrument, but because he's from China his story is instantly shrugged off..
March 2023, Some Chinese social media personnel by the name of Shuo Liu Bought a Epiphone 1959 Les Paul Standard in the "Inspired by Gibson" series. It was purchased in the Gibson official online store in China, The price was 5,785 Chinese yuan, equal to about $825 USD at the time.
From Mr. Liu's own recount, he found the guitar has an lackluster sound, and upon further investigation, he inspected in the control cavity and it seems has different physical properties than mahogany&maple where he is familiar with.
April 2023, he submitted the guitar to an independent yet professional lab for wood specimen testing. samples was collected on on the back and the top(not veneer) of the guitar, wood identification testing was performed on the samples, and the testing was conducted by Research Institute of Wood Industry lab, under Chinese Academy of Forestry in Beijing.
Test results came back:
The guitar back was made out of Canarium, in the family of Burseraceae, commonly known as Olive wood, or Canarium wood.
The guitar top(not veneer) was made of Betula sp., also in the family of Betulaceae, and commonly known as Birch.
Here are two official test result report that Mr.Liu presented, I have attached screenshot here, one for the back, one for the top.
Later that month, Mr.Liu filed suit against Epiphone and the management company in China (激声博韵, an organization fully under Gibson that handles business in China) in a civil court in Beijing. Claiming the "product defect".
What I think is really important is what have been revealed in the court hearing and suit process:
Per Mr.Liu's statement that in the court process:
1. Epiphone and Gibson China(激声博韵, formerly mentioned as the company fully funded by Gibson, operates in China) acknowledged that this guitar (SN22091530357) is their production guitar manufactured in 2022, it passed QC and was released to the market.
2. Epiphone and Gibson China acknowledge and accept the lab testing results Mr.Liu (plaintiff) presented, it is VALID.
4. Epiphone and Gibson China argued that different wood material was used due to summer production time humidity.
5. Epiphone and Gibson China argued that there isn't regulatory or statue standard on solid body guitar making, they have the right to change specifications without notification, as long as it confirms the established company standards of their own.
The first court hearing is completed and the court ruled against Mr.Liu that change of wood material does not constitute as the suit claimed "product defect". He lost, but he is still in the process of appeal.
What is more interesting is:
Since the law suit, the "disclaimer of changing specs" has been added not only at all Chinese selling platforms, social medias specs page, it is also added in the official Epiphone website:
Well it's now happening in America, but the Gibson fanboys are instantly attacking anyone who posts pictures and stories about the deception and false advertising of Gibson/Epiphone guitars and all this comes at a time when Gibson/Epiphone are now charging $1000-$1700 usd,and that makes me nervous for my fellow musicians, could you imagine buying this spectacular Chinese Cnc made guitar for $1000+ that is supposed to be "authentic" and boasts real maple/mahogany only to find out you've got a birch, Asian cherry, olive wood guitar? That's horrible!
There's talks that Gibson is about to phase out standard USA production and fire American employees and only keep Murphy labs and the custom shop in America and everything else will be produced in China..
It costs Gibson roughly $89-$150 to produce a complete guitar in China using a slimed down work force and cnc machining and since they're an American based company they pay next to nothing on importing them here and sell them for $699-$1700 usd
Gibson has gone full out psycho greedy..
I'd definitely think twice before handing over $1000-$1700 for that Epiphone..
I've been researching Gibson and Epiphone because of the talks of a new Jimmy Page #1 possibly coming out and I've found some startling stuff I want to share with you,hopefully to help you not get taken by false advertisement..
Lately there's been speculation of woods with Epiphone, apparently Epiphone isn't using what they tell us they are..
People started noticing when the headstocks would snap on their epiphones and what's underneath isn't mahogany or maple nor even related family woods, but rather olive wood, birch, poplar and Asian cherry varieties..
This is on guitars specifically billed to be maple, mahogany and so on..
A man in China purchased an Epiphone 1959 reissue for $825 usd but noticed something was off about his instrument, but because he's from China his story is instantly shrugged off..
March 2023, Some Chinese social media personnel by the name of Shuo Liu Bought a Epiphone 1959 Les Paul Standard in the "Inspired by Gibson" series. It was purchased in the Gibson official online store in China, The price was 5,785 Chinese yuan, equal to about $825 USD at the time.
From Mr. Liu's own recount, he found the guitar has an lackluster sound, and upon further investigation, he inspected in the control cavity and it seems has different physical properties than mahogany&maple where he is familiar with.
April 2023, he submitted the guitar to an independent yet professional lab for wood specimen testing. samples was collected on on the back and the top(not veneer) of the guitar, wood identification testing was performed on the samples, and the testing was conducted by Research Institute of Wood Industry lab, under Chinese Academy of Forestry in Beijing.
Test results came back:
The guitar back was made out of Canarium, in the family of Burseraceae, commonly known as Olive wood, or Canarium wood.
The guitar top(not veneer) was made of Betula sp., also in the family of Betulaceae, and commonly known as Birch.
Here are two official test result report that Mr.Liu presented, I have attached screenshot here, one for the back, one for the top.
Later that month, Mr.Liu filed suit against Epiphone and the management company in China (激声博韵, an organization fully under Gibson that handles business in China) in a civil court in Beijing. Claiming the "product defect".
What I think is really important is what have been revealed in the court hearing and suit process:
Per Mr.Liu's statement that in the court process:
1. Epiphone and Gibson China(激声博韵, formerly mentioned as the company fully funded by Gibson, operates in China) acknowledged that this guitar (SN22091530357) is their production guitar manufactured in 2022, it passed QC and was released to the market.
2. Epiphone and Gibson China acknowledge and accept the lab testing results Mr.Liu (plaintiff) presented, it is VALID.
4. Epiphone and Gibson China argued that different wood material was used due to summer production time humidity.
5. Epiphone and Gibson China argued that there isn't regulatory or statue standard on solid body guitar making, they have the right to change specifications without notification, as long as it confirms the established company standards of their own.
The first court hearing is completed and the court ruled against Mr.Liu that change of wood material does not constitute as the suit claimed "product defect". He lost, but he is still in the process of appeal.
What is more interesting is:
Since the law suit, the "disclaimer of changing specs" has been added not only at all Chinese selling platforms, social medias specs page, it is also added in the official Epiphone website:
Well it's now happening in America, but the Gibson fanboys are instantly attacking anyone who posts pictures and stories about the deception and false advertising of Gibson/Epiphone guitars and all this comes at a time when Gibson/Epiphone are now charging $1000-$1700 usd,and that makes me nervous for my fellow musicians, could you imagine buying this spectacular Chinese Cnc made guitar for $1000+ that is supposed to be "authentic" and boasts real maple/mahogany only to find out you've got a birch, Asian cherry, olive wood guitar? That's horrible!
There's talks that Gibson is about to phase out standard USA production and fire American employees and only keep Murphy labs and the custom shop in America and everything else will be produced in China..
It costs Gibson roughly $89-$150 to produce a complete guitar in China using a slimed down work force and cnc machining and since they're an American based company they pay next to nothing on importing them here and sell them for $699-$1700 usd
Gibson has gone full out psycho greedy..
I'd definitely think twice before handing over $1000-$1700 for that Epiphone..
