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lets identify exactly how a good vintage burst sounds different than a Historic .....

goldtop0

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Aug 19, 2003
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8,261
Greg Koch plays a 1960 this is probably one of the best references to ‘the sound’ that I hear from a vintage burst, a sweet clarity.

He describes it as 'tele esque' which is something that I get from my P90 R6.
I'm yet to come across a LP that sounds like this early '60 of Mike Slubowski's..........magic is the word.
 

Todd Louis

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Historics vs Burst....
Well here is my 2 bits....
Back in the time when Bursts where first being discovered. Lest say for arguments sake earlier 60s.
Rolling Stones up to Zeppelin.
They were under 10 years old.
I say this because, age has a factor that can be herd very clearly.
Today there 60 years old.
So in comparing them to a Historic its not going to be a fare comparison.

If you where to go back to 1969 and take a 10 year old burst and a 10 years old "stock" Historic.
I say stock because 90% of us here don't have stock Historics..
Now you have a even playing fileld.

Non of my Historics are stock, i fixed the inaccuracies Gibson didn't get right. Even todays there not playing fare. Regardless.
I would put my #1 Historics up against a burst. And it would easily hold its own.
Whould they be the same?
No
First there two different guitars
Two Historics would sound different.
Two Bursts would sound different.
But the main difference that would stand out would be the age.

Historics have become and are the modern burst.

In 60 years well see how they stand up.

Remember the price of a burst is not because of the tone.
Its because of the rarity of the instrument.
 

Todd Louis

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14,512
A better comparison would be to put your Historics up against the records of the mid 60s to late 70s.
Because thats the tone that made this whole question in the first place.
And your listing to a 5 to 10 to 15 year old burst on those records.
Its been 28 years of Historics now.
So there are plenty that are that age.
 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
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8,114
Not to be a "Debbie Downer", but not every single vintage Burst sounded great.. Some, even back then were duds.. I've played a few mediocre ones and some that were just so-so.. If you have a Historic or even a regular production model and you love it, then enjoy it and play the shit outta it!!
 

TM1

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Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,114
Historics vs Burst....
Well here is my 2 bits....
Back in the time when Bursts where first being discovered. Lest say for arguments sake earlier 60s.
Rolling Stones up to Zeppelin.
They were under 10 years old.
I say this because, age has a factor that can be herd very clearly.
Today there 60 years old.
So in comparing them to a Historic its not going to be a fare comparison.

If you where to go back to 1969 and take a 10 year old burst and a 10 years old "stock" Historic.
I say stock because 90% of us here don't have stock Historics..
Now you have a even playing fileld.

Non of my Historics are stock, i fixed the inaccuracies Gibson didn't get right. Even todays there not playing fare. Regardless.
I would put my #1 Historics up against a burst. And it would easily hold its own.
Whould they be the same?
No
First there two different guitars
Two Historics would sound different.
Two Bursts would sound different.
But the main difference that would stand out would be the age.

Historics have become and are the modern burst.

In 60 years well see how they stand up.

Remember the price of a burst is not because of the tone.
Its because of the rarity of the instrument.
My friend Paul Smith (Mr. PRS) told me about 30 years ago that the great Les Pauls' were that way on Day One! They came from the Kalamazoo factory as a great guitar.
 

stumphead

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Dec 12, 2018
Messages
399
Not to be a "Debbie Downer", but not every single vintage Burst sounded great.. Some, even back then were duds.. I've played a few mediocre ones and some that were just so-so.. If you have a Historic or even a regular production model and you love it, then enjoy it and play the shit outta it!!

philosophy question ..... what if an all original 59 vintage burst in mint condition with case and all paperwork is "mediocre" as you say .... would it still be worth a fortune ?
 

Todd Louis

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Aug 7, 2002
Messages
14,512
My friend Paul Smith (Mr. PRS) told me about 30 years ago that the great Les Pauls' were that way on Day One! They came from the Kalamazoo factory as a great guitar.
Ya i know paul. And i disagree with his statement. Not every Burst is a good guitar. Not every Historic is a good guitar
 

Todd Louis

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Aug 7, 2002
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14,512
philosophy question ..... what if an all original 59 vintage burst in mint condition with case and all paperwork is "mediocre" as you say .... would it still be worth a fortune ?
The reason a Burst is so expensive is because there where ruffly only 1700 built.
The price is not reflecting quality its rarity and 50 years of a legend.
A LP will sound like a LP even a norlin will still get you a LP sound.
 

Todd Louis

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Aug 7, 2002
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14,512
I neva bought Vintage for a reason.
Yes i was offered and yes i had the opportunity. And i definitely know the people to get them from.
I don't see the need to spend 600k+ on a guitar that i have already.
As a professional musician i am very happy with my Historics.

Burst are fantastic and always will be the original that everything is based off of. But today you don't need one to get the same result.
That time has passed.
This stands with Fennder as well.
Both companies have successfully reproduced there original models to a 95% degree of accuracy and the rest can be tweeked.
Jimmy Page used a Historic thru almost 50% of the O2 show.
Billy Gibbins uses Historics on stage.
Countess others.
After 28 years they have come into there own.
When im on stage no audience member knows that im playing a Historic a Burts or a Norlin.
And i have had people and fellow guitar players come up to me thinking my Historics where bursts.
I don't know how someone could not know the difference but again thats because I know, most don't.

In the end. Its now a rich players collection more then a necessity
For tone.
Thats a hard pill to swallow for some.
But its really a good thing.
We now have the original model back where it should be. In production.
 

Todd Louis

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Aug 7, 2002
Messages
14,512
I was at Mandolin Brothers one day and Stan had a LL L5 on the wall right next to it the Historic model.
I compared both and played both side by side.
This was a perfect what to to just hear the difference in wood only.
They sounded the same basically.
But the LL sounded mature well played and smother.
The Historic one day will probably sound just like it.
Its was not a drastically different at all.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
37
When I read the title of this thread I thought "oh boy, here we go" but this has been an excellent discussion. I especially like the video clips. Greg K. is really something. Thank you for posting. I live in CO and keep thinking one day I'll walk into Wildwood and run into him:)
 

DutchRay

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Mar 15, 2015
Messages
390
For those who like side by side videos, here's one with the dutchburst vs historic. It is in dutch but just don't listen to them talking :)
I was there when it was recorded and in person the differences where even more obvious! Plugged into a '62 AC30 and Lex Bos Superdrive pedal.

 

stumphead

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Dec 12, 2018
Messages
399
the advantage of the vintage burst in the video - tone wise - is startling and dramatic
I guess a Historic can truly never match a vintage burst
 
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