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Looking for Feedback on a couple weird Specials (DC prototype? factory refin?)

jordans0012

New member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3
Hey all, looking for some opinions on a couple guitars. These are not mine, but I was considering buying them. After getting the pics, I am really only interested in the 61, but wanted to post pictures here. I've seen a lot of great threads on transitional DC specials/juniors and I wanted to share these. They are through a connection I trust and respect but of course everybody makes mistakes. The main guitar in question was believed to be a late 57 prototype special, but after getting pictures, it looks (in my amateur opinion) more like a 58 DC in Cherry that was refinished in TV Yellow in the 60s I would imagine, maybe at the factory. The serial number has a hyphen, which I think often indicates factory refinish, and it looks very similar to a post that I saw on here describing the serial of a factory refin'd Flying V, which I will include. I have see some 60s SG Juniors in TV yellow which have developed this very "red" looking TV yellow, but it might also be cherry underneath, I'm not sure. The pics aren't quite good enough to see, my buddy thinks its just oxidized finish/grain filler but I can't say for sure, the finish looks very "red" to me and very unlike TV examples from the 50s I've seen that have worn through on the necks. I have seen a thread on here with an original 61 SG junior in TV yellow that developed a similar "reddish" hue over time. Here are the pics, would love opinions on both, I am very interested in the 61 (it is a Cream special) and it all looks straight to me, but I don't really know where to begin with the other one. The reddish yellow one with the headstock crack is the earlier one, presumably 57-59, and the cream one is the later one, a 61. it also looks like both logos are from after 1960, based on the L in les, furthering my suspicion that it was sent back to factory, silkscreen was probably redone

Thanks for your help!

Like I said, this is from a very knowledgeable source that I trust and respect, so even though Prototype is usually code for "you're going to get fucked" I still wanted to consider that option, while recognizing that, again, everyone can make mistakes. I've never seen another DC special this early though and the serial number on it looks like a factory refin, were dashes ever used for anything other than refinishing?
 

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jordans0012

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Mar 28, 2020
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3
And here's a few more pics! Thanks again
 

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Aloha_Ark

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
120
The photo labeled lpf special 13 has a control cavity cover with 5 edges while the default is 4 edges, at least for 1961.

1961-gibson-les-paul-special-tv-yellow-nQejJ8V.jpg


Have the seller send pics of the inside of the control cavity. The pots codes may the only clue that a guitar is even close to an original. We can also look at the back of the pickups.
 

jordans0012

New member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3
The photo labeled lpf special 13 has a control cavity cover with 5 edges while the default is 4 edges, at least for 1961.

1961-gibson-les-paul-special-tv-yellow-nQejJ8V.jpg


Have the seller send pics of the inside of the control cavity. The pots codes may the only clue that a guitar is even close to an original. We can also look at the back of the pickups.
thank you!!! will do, i'll try to get some more pics. also, sorry i was not clear, the one labeled special 13, the reddish/yellow one, is the one that was supposed to be a prototype/late 57. the creamier one is the 61. on the reddish/yellow one, it has the older pickguard route and then the lower switch, and the fatter neck joint. the creamy one, the 61, has the typical features of a 61 like the backplate/tiny neck joint/higher toggle switch. the cream one looked straight to me, the silkscreen Les Paul are sometimes on those, sometimes not, but everything else looks right to my eye. no clue what to make of the reddish/yellow one, it has a post 60s les paul decal it seems so i think it probably got refinished, maybe had a neck break when the headstock cracked.

interestingly, that 61 does have the reddish tint, i've just never seen that on earlier TV yellows
 
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