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Survey : if the Historics were made in China but half the price - would you buy one ?

ADP

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Jul 16, 2015
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281
I assume then that you would have been very open to paying 6000 for an American flat screen tv instead of 2000 for one made in China ?

American Iphone ..... nobody would complain if it was 2,000 ?

Modeling amp made in New York for 3 times the price ?

Laptops made in Boston for 3 to 4 times the price ?

My point is your money went much further because you could buy a Chinese microwave for 80 bucks instead of the $ 500 an America one would have cost ..
Yes, and I am living proof that your logic is flawed. My guitars are from the 50's and 60's, not only do they still work perfectly - their value has insurmountably skyrocketed. My coffee maker is from the 80's. My John Deere also from the 80's. Sound system, the 70's granted from Japan. Everything not only works, it is the most sought after of whatever product it is. The best stuff is built to last. The pride of USA craft understands that.

My cars all still work, perfectly - not only that, they are all somehow worth more than they were brand new. I only buy things once, maintain them for life, and have a genuine pride in ownership with everything I am lucky enough to own.

How long does cheap Chinese shit last? Are you living life for the temporary? I am pretty sure I am going to play my guitar my whole life - I'll be damned if I associate myself with anything less than the very ultimate instrument crafted to perfection and universally respected as such, all without saying a word.

Personally, I have more respect for myself than to own Chinese trash.
 

Dr. Green

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Dec 12, 2018
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591
Amen.

GIB ME AN AMEN!

so I assume that this guitar with GIBSON on the headstock instead of Eastman would be a clunker for 2500 ?

comes with a hand applied varnish finish and Lollars - stock


 

Pat Boyack

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Oct 19, 2011
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4,414
Thing is you just don't know with China, you can't trust them. Gibson could have solid terms in a contract with a factory there that specifies the types of materials and lumbers used be of a specific type and quality etc etc and the factory will cut corners behind Gibson's back to cheat Gibson and maximize their own profits. That's just the way they operate over there. If you're running a company, the only time you'd want to outsource manufacturing of your products to China is if you don't care if the quality of your product is garbage and only care that it's made as cheaply as possible.

I'd buy a Japanese made Gibson though if it were made in the same factory that builds Gretsch's, ESP, the higher-end Ibanez stuff etc
That was the case 20-30 years ago. The large manufacturers have representatives in Asia who keep a close eye on production. Plus, there are a number of well respected factories. To say that companies are outsourcing their product despite of bad quality just isn't true these days because there is too much money involved and the market is very competitive.
 

jb_abides

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so I assume that this guitar with GIBSON on the headstock instead of Eastman would be a clunker for 2500 ?

comes with a hand applied varnish finish and Lollars - stock



Stumphead (Dr. Green) -

Eastman's are a fine instrument, I have an El Rey, one of their more original creations.

SB59 are by no means 'clunkers' ... although now they figure as pawns in the game of extreme qualification for hypothetical pondering.

And more on par and price point with Gibson (USA) Original Collection Les Paul Standard than a Custom Shop 59 Reissue (both of which come with a Gibson Headstock). You can argue parts, quality as marginal differences, not a great leap.

Honoring legacy, that's key.

By my read, it seems most want to keep the Gibson headstock on USA guitars, and more importantly, the succession of ownership has deemed it to be so as well.
 

tdarian

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Jun 25, 2008
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3,547
A lot of discussion about this general topic:

 

ADP

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Jul 16, 2015
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281
If you play a Chinese trash guitar, you look and sound like Chinese trash. There is no debate on the subject. It's why not one single band or artist today is worth standing up for and why every single band sounded amazing back in the day. Call me old fashioned, it starts with how it was made and the love - or lack thereof -instilled into the instrument by it's maker. That is what some refer to as "mojo".
 

JPP-1

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so I assume that this guitar with GIBSON on the headstock instead of Eastman would be a clunker for 2500 ?

comes with a hand applied varnish finish and Lollars - stock




Have you been living on the moon the past few years? Chinese Gibsons? You must be fucking kidding me. For a multitude of reasons before you even get to wood selection or finish.

I wouldn’t buy North Korean or Russian Gibsons either, would you? I mean if they were 1/3 the price with “hand applied varnish” by Taliban artisans and “Lollars - stock”.

Unlike an iphone or a laptop which is a rapidly depreciating product with planned obsolescence and no Western made alternative, a great instrument can last a lifetime and beyond. Chinese Gibsons, what an absolutely shameful prospect. -not for 1/5 the price, not ever.
 
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renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
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so I assume that this guitar with GIBSON on the headstock instead of Eastman would be a clunker for 2500 ?

comes with a hand applied varnish finish and Lollars - stock


In my mind yes.

And, by the way, I think the premiss for the thread/question is good and maybe (in the present world) NEEDS to be asked.

I.E. I don't think you were just stirring the pot.

But China? Mind you, they are being tapped for cheap/slave labor.

Please factor that in and test your moral arguments and standings based on that.

They never pass the smell test unless you are deluding yourself.

The bigscreen TV question actually is the crux of the matter.


To many are willing to turn their heads and cough, but I question who is grabbing their balls...
 

jb_abides

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Consider the whole Gibson corporation helps keep US guitars afloat, though.

I, for one, would prefer Gibson move Epiphone to Indonesia (like PRS with 'SE') or Latin America, etc.

Having watched the Chinese Epiphone factory tour video, those workers seem to be treated decently, apart from the system under which they... live.

Social credit scores and statist force over the people, coming soon to your neighborhood...? Hmmm.

 

renderit

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Jan 19, 2009
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Nope. If that is the only way they can stay afloat there is something terribly wrong.

I'm sure everything looked fine during the filming.

They control that very closely...


Sad fact: I have no doubt the factory may be improving those workers lives.

The simple fact you are choosing not to look at if you buy one: every guitar rolling off that line that is purchased in the free world is adding credibility to a horrendous dictatorship that is killing and eradicating millions for their beliefs.

No way to sugar-coat the truth.

If you choose to ignore that so you can sleep better maybe you can understand why so many things are turning to shit.

We are continuously being asked to sell our souls.

At some point we become soulless and everything is possible.

We will be no better than animals...
 

Wizard1183

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Jan 20, 2018
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China owns the world. You think it’s getting bad now? China is buying land in the US. Something I didn’t think a foreigner could do? Not to mention they’re buying up all the mines. Soon, a monopoly and if you can’t afford it? It doesn’t matter. One world. The China world. Regardless, Americans have more pride in many products that are made. Thing is once they become too large, the price seems to leave.
 

Dr. Green

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SOME FOLKS WERE HAPPY
SOME FOLKS GOT MEAN

BECAUSE OF BIG AL

STUMPHEAD BECAME DR. GREEN

IF YOU LIKE TO DANCE
OR IF YOU LIKE TO SING

THAT MIC THAT YOU BOUGHT
WAS MADE IN BEIJING

IT DONT MATTER IF YOU ARE A PAINTER
OR COAL MINER

LOOK AROUND YOUR HOUSE
EVERYTHING IS MADE IN CHINA
 
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renderit

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Wouldn't that be: Chiner so's it rhymes?...

Big Al suffers no filters.

I used to get butt hurt over it on account of he lit in to me many a time back in the day.

I came around to really really enjoying it.

And having to concede he usually has a point.

While I don't always agree I find I rarely like people who only agree with me.


So let's lighten it up.

And yes I do have many China made products in my house, I ain't a saint.

I believe I am an enabler to a degree myself.

But I don't sleep much either...


P.S. most of my mics are US or German unless they came in a kit, and those are all in a box somewhere.
 
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jb_abides

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Nope. If that is the only way they can stay afloat there is something terribly wrong.

Should read: "Correct. If that is the only way they can stay afloat there is something terribly wrong..."

Yes, things are very wrong. Things have already turned. I am just pointing this out for clarity.

And yes, sure .. they controlled the filming.

Don't disagree with the balance of your post, but look where non-guitar 'things' in your possession are made, or components are made.

How much from China?

Look at the whole board.

If you look there, you can't sugar-coat or ignore that while buying any Gibson product (USA and CS included) helps forestall the issue while honoring the intellectual property, craftsmanship and labor of the US...

Gibson profits from globalization, writ large: Epiphone is a brand, profits accrue to the parent, there is only one bottom-line for Gibson Brands.

So we are all ignoring, to a degree, and souls slip-slidin' away.
 

JPP-1

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Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
1,333
SOME FOLKS WERE HAPPY
SOME FOLKS GOT MEAN

BECAUSE OF BIG AL

STUMPHEAD BECAME DR. GREEN

IF YOU LIKE TO DANCE
OR IF YOU LIKE TO SING

THAT MIC THAT YOU BOUGHT
WAS MADE IN BEIJING

IT DONT MATTER IF YOU ARE A PAINTER
OR COAL MINER

LOOK AROUND YOUR HOUSE
EVERYTHING IS MADE IN CHINA

I don’t know what you’re dancing and singing into. Great mics that professionals use like Neumann, Telefunken Electoakustic -“Diamond Series”, FLEA, etc., aren’t made in China.

Mean? no. Mean is killing dogs and cats, imprisoning people for being sick, executions, etc.

Mean? Maybe you should hang out with Lebron, Kaepernick and Joy Reid. Maybe they can tell Uyghur family memebers whose relatives have been sent to reeducation and labor camps how “oppressed” they are in their USA mansions and maybe you can chime in about “mean” forum members who believe the idea of Chinese made Gibsons is despicable
 
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jb_abides

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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
3,058
You think it’s getting bad now? China is buying land in the US. Something I didn’t think a foreigner could do? Not to mention they’re buying up all the mines. Soon, a monopoly and if you can’t afford it? It doesn’t matter. One world. The China world. Regardless, Americans have more pride in many products that are made. Thing is once they become too large, the price seems to leave.

Land, Mines...? China owns our debt. ...Among 'Others', who hold US Treasuries. And create fiat currency (what some think of as money). Debasement of which, the road to serfdom paves!
 
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jb_abides

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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
3,058
I believe I am an enabler to a degree myself.

But I don't sleep much either...

Yup, we all are.

But only... The Bad Sleep Well!

ceee13f73bead786d85adf01a7ad8d06.jpg
 
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