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‘60s pelham blue SG Standards - how many?

DariStar

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Oct 27, 2022
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Hmm...well I still haven't figured out how to properly shrink the photos/ get them to post here on the forum. Doing it like this seems to make the resolution look poor and be oversized, even just the size I guess would make them look poor.
Hey, maybe that worked..seems like a lot of work having to go and resize the image within my mac library. I don't understand why my pics are so oversized to begin with?
 

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Old dude 70

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When I was a kid a friend of a friend tried to sell me a busted body ebo bass in Pelham blue, I’m guessing 66 ish
 

DariStar

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Oct 27, 2022
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Dare I intrude upon this thread with some cool pics of a non-vintage recent reissue?

Note this is Murphy Lab Ultra Light aging. No apparent greening in that version... perhaps a smidge of fade from more vibrant PB?

I wonder if you can dial-in yellowing/fade finish separate from how aggressive the relic'ing is on ML guitars?

Machts Nichts for me, as a southpaw I'd have to go Made-to-Measure as the basis for a ML, like this one.



Dire Wolf aka Alex from Lefty Vintage Guitars just listed a M2M he commissioned (I am not affiliated with Alex).

More great pics in the Reverb listing
Hey JB, yeah the new Pelham M2M light aged (no greened) and the 64' Murphy heavier aged (Greened) are great reissues. Murphy definitely controls how amber the nitro used to top coat the Pelham Blue / how much "greening". Yes when using artificial "aging" methods Murphy can control the checking separate from the amber/greening.
Natural aging can be various mixes as well. I have seen VERY "Greened" 60's Pelham Gibsons with almost zero checking to the nitro finish as well as Very Blue/non-ambered finish with quite a bit of checking in the nitro finish. The "ambering" of nitro is related mostly to UV exposure and the "checking" of nitro is related to temperature fluctuations ( mostly extreme or rapid fluctuations, yet many decades may produce checking without rapid or extreme fluctuations it seems). The minute variances in the nitro mix and application can affect this as well.
Like the Kluson Tuner button decomposition issue, some from the 50's are almost perfect, other are already turned to dust. Certainly the environmental conditions play into it, but the slight mix of that material might affect it even more so. The reason I say this is the fact that on an all original 50's-60's guitars we sometimes see some of the tuning buttons act very differently from others on the same guitar. This is likely because one way or the other buttons from different batches, that were mixed with minute differences in the chemical/materials, made there way on to the same guitar. This can be with individual tuner sets (SG STD) or even different button matches making on to a 3 to a strip tuner set of Klusons (LP special) or a 6 to a strip ( NR Firebird).
 

jb_abides

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Hey JB, yeah the new Pelham M2M light aged (no greened) and the 64' Murphy heavier aged (Greened) are great reissues. Murphy definitely controls how amber the nitro used to top coat the Pelham Blue / how much "greening". Yes when using artificial "aging" methods Murphy can control the checking separate from the amber/greening.

Thanks. Nice to know they can be ordered independently. (y)

the "checking" of nitro is related to temperature fluctuations ( mostly extreme or rapid fluctuations, yet many decades may produce checking without rapid or extreme fluctuations it seems). The minute variances in the nitro mix and application can affect this as well.
Certainly true for vintage and other alternative checking methods, but Tom and the Murphy lab are known to be reliant upon the X-ACTO or razor blade method. :sneaky:
 

DariStar

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Thanks. Nice to know they can be ordered independently. (y)


Certainly true for vintage and other alternative checking methods, but Tom and the Murphy lab are known to be reliant upon the X-ACTO or razor blade method. :sneaky:
That blade method is not used anymore except for repairs and special small situations. Murphy labs is using harder lacquer and very cold temps to achieve a much more "natural" creation of "checking"
 

jb_abides

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That blade method is not used anymore except for repairs and special small situations. Murphy labs is using harder lacquer and very cold temps to achieve a much more "natural" creation of "checking"
Really?

Thanks... That's news to me.

I knew about the harder nitro formation... although I thought the requirement for precision control of direction and pattern necessitated the blade.

How do they guarantee this using temp methods? I'd be pissed if I expected checking perpendicular to the neck and got checking in line with the neck.

Are they using a 'cold gun' ???
 

DariStar

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Really?

Thanks... That's news to me.

I knew about the harder nitro formation... although I thought the requirement for precision control of direction and pattern necessitated the blade.

How do they guarantee this using temp methods? I'd be pissed if I expected checking perpendicular to the neck and got checking in line with the neck.

Are they using a 'cold gun' ???
I think there is still a lot of "magic" to the processes used by TM and the few other guys that are really good at this. I also think if you look at the new heavy aged and ultra heavy aged, the checking is much more "natural" and random in places. Even though that is hard to say because "natural" checking does vary quite a bit. Around the heavy dents and dings the newer ML finishes breaks from the flow just like a vintage guitar's checking will do. It also seems more "lifted" at the edge of the "cracks" that my 03 Murphy ever did. Otherwise you can really feel the "cracks", my 03' Murphy, you can just barely feel the razor blade "relicing".
As far as lets say horizontal vs vertical on the headstock, neck or body for that matter..I dunno how that works, but it almost always seems to work / check the same way with vintage natural age related checking as well. That has been a mystery to me as well. There have only been a few instances over the years where I actually saw checking on a vintage guitar going the "wrong" direction. It was almost always on 50's Gold Tops in the typical forearm rest top side/ opposite the controls and on Flattop acoustics.

I know of different methods to get really cold where you want it, but I don't exactly know how ML use the cold, I was told this info recently in Nashville by someone that has worked with TM and the Custom Shop from the beginning. I did personally witness a 65 Pelham Firebird that had a nitro respray on part of its body "naturally" checked by sub-zero outdoor temps. The respray area was sprayed in true (un-greened) Pelham Blue, color matched with amber nitro, allowed to really cure/dry out, by the following Winter it was still perfectly unchecked. The guitar was taken from a comfortable humidity mid-70's room to the ultra-dry outdoors during sub-zero temps for just a few minutes at a time and it literally checked before our eyes. The rest of the guitar was already heavily checked and did not seem to check any further. I was somewhat skeptical how this was going to turn out, but the guy really knew his stuff from working on vintage Acoustics and Arch tops mostly. It definitely checked in the right direction in the same pattern as the rest of the guitar..like magic. Was it perfect, no..but it was really close.
 

DariStar

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Thanks. Nice to know they can be ordered independently. (y)


Certainly true for vintage and other alternative checking methods, but Tom and the Murphy lab are known to be reliant upon the X-ACTO or razor blade method. :sneaky:
I don't know if an individual can order like this, but the M2M and exclusive shop runs and ML can certainly do their runs however they like as far as degrees of "aging" and colors of paints and tints of the lacquer.
 

jb_abides

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I know of different methods to get really cold where you want it, but I don't exactly know how ML use the cold, I was told this info recently in Nashville by someone that has worked with TM and the Custom Shop from the beginning.

I know many have done weather checking over the years, all over the place, but you are sayin you've witnessed this inside the Murphy Lab?

I was somewhat skeptical how this was going to turn out, but the guy really knew his stuff from working on vintage Acoustics and Arch tops mostly. It definitely checked in the right direction in the same pattern as the rest of the guitar..like magic. Was it perfect, no..but it was really close.

There are certainly masters of the craft out there. I wager application of the finish, drying, and the manner of how you apply temperature changes (delta, degree, and gradient on specific areas), one might figure out the dark arts of how to crack well :LOL:
 

DariStar

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I know many have done weather checking over the years, all over the place, but you are sayin you've witnessed this inside the Murphy Lab?



There are certainly masters of the craft out there. I wager application of the finish, drying, and the manner of how you apply temperature changes (delta, degree, and gradient on specific areas), one might figure out the dark arts of how to crack well :LOL:
No, I have never been inside of the Murphy Lab facility. The vintage Firebird finish work/repair was done by a guy that has no connection to Gibson or Tom Murphy.
Haha..yes and I think thin nitro and low humidity affect the outcome as well.
 

Jethro Rocker

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Hmm...well I still haven't figured out how to properly shrink the photos/ get them to post here on the forum. Doing it like this seems to make the resolution look poor and be oversized, even just the size I guess would make them look poor.
Hey, maybe that worked..seems like a lot of work having to go and resize the image within my mac library. I don't understand why my pics are so oversized to begin with?
I believe 2 Mb is the max picture size? Either resize to less pixels or just post via a third party host like Imgur. That's what I do. Easy and saves bandwidth on the site. It's free.
 

DariStar

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So it does exist!!! A collector that has been on the lookout for decades said this and one other, are the only ones that he has seen come up for sale in decades!

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herbie74w

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May 19, 2015
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I kinda cheated here is my 1966 melody maker. I had it renecked using the original board but now has wider nut and binding. When I did it they were pretty cheap and it had neck issues. 187D78FF-F9BC-4D80-B272-79362EB1379D.jpeg0CDD9967-65B9-4C09-9B5E-2C6A4C08F90B.jpeg0B024E32-C37F-437A-A0AD-64EA6FAF6B21.jpeg0B024E32-C37F-437A-A0AD-64EA6FAF6B21.jpeg
 
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DariStar

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I kinda cheated hears my 1966 melody maker. I had it renecked using the original board but now has wider nut and binding. When I did it they were pretty cheap and it had neck issues.
Cool! Does the neck feel and play better?
 

DariStar

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Well, I did get one decent pic! Early 65' SG Standard in Pelham Blue. I do have the original vibrato arm, I gotta dig that up.
 

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