1960 Custom Pickup Cavities

[slaphappygrandpa]

Hello, Does anyone see anything wrong with either or both of these pickup cavity’s? I bought this LPC and someone I respect said that the cavity’s didn’t look right. I would very much appreciate feedback.

 

[S. Weiger]

last fret inlay looks right.
cavities look kinda wrong to me..
Could be the pics?
Vintage 2 pickup LP Customs are extremely rare, this might be a P90 / alnico LPC converted to humbuckers?
Need to see control cavity + pickup cavities straight on. + the whole guitar.
Oh, and welcome.

 

[dnabbet2]

... this might be a P90 / alnico LPC converted to humbuckers?

Bridge cavity does have two P90-type holes. But why wouldn't they be painted over during all the work to convert to a humbucker?

 

[S. Weiger]

Bridge cavity does have two P90-type holes. But why wouldn't they be painted over during all the work to convert to a humbucker?

Perhaps because it wasn't the intention to decieve at the time it was converted?
Or they forgot? Or didn't think anyone would bother to question it?
I'd really like to see a good close-up of the serial #. If it is a '56, the "6" could be "converted" into a "0" with little effort I think.

 

[poor man's burst]

What is the saw slot at the bass side end of the bridge pickup cavity?
What about the tuners? Is there any evidence of Kluson waffleback?

 

[simon]

most likely a conversion

 

[dnabbet2]

most likely a conversion

Are we going to delve into this? A conversion would be a lot of work including a refinish: for one thing, the P90 rout on the neck pickup would originally have been almost flush with the neck binding, so you'd have to "reconstruct" that whole cavity ... you know, glue a piece in and rerout it.

There's a superb thread on '54 style Customs in this forum that features photos of original pickup cavities: https://www.lespaulforum.com/index....black-beauty-the-alnico-custom-thread.190622/. And this would be to wreck a genuine '56 to make it into an admittedly rare two-pickup '60? Okay, can we get more pics?

 

[poor man's burst]

Are we going to delve into this? A conversion would be a lot of work including a refinish: for one thing, the P90 rout on the neck pickup would originally have been almost flush with the neck binding, so you'd have to "reconstruct" that whole cavity ... you know, glue a piece in and rerout it.

And this would be to wreck a genuine '56 to make it into an admittedly rare two-pickup '60?

Maybe for the same reason people convert P-90s Les Paul Gold Top to humbuckers?

 

[simon]

Are we going to delve into this? A conversion would be a lot of work including a refinish: for one thing, the P90 rout on the neck pickup would originally have been almost flush with the neck binding, so you'd have to "reconstruct" that whole cavity ... you know, glue a piece in and rerout it.

There's a superb thread on '54 style Customs in this forum that features photos of original pickup cavities: https://www.lespaulforum.com/index....black-beauty-the-alnico-custom-thread.190622/. And this would be to wreck a genuine '56 to make it into an admittedly rare two-pickup '60? Okay, can we get more pics?

Both cavities clearly show tooling marks of P90 routing as well. BUT you're right about the neck cavity being flush with the end of the neck. That bridge PU routing is weird.

 

[S. Weiger]

I sure hope we can get to see more of OP's guitar. Headstock, back HS, control cavity, serial # (omit the last 3 digits if you are more comfortable that way, @slaphappygrandpa )

Here's a neck cavity comparison with a 1954 BB:

 

[S. Weiger]

double post

 

[Wilko]

Certainly looks odd to me. Something ain't right.

 

[matkoehler]

A 2-humbucker Les Paul Custom from that era is as rare as it gets, and they command many times more than a regular 3-humbucker model. Doesn't bode well from these shots but can we see more photos please? How about front and back? Serial number? Back cavities?

 

[slaphappygrandpa]

A 2-humbucker Les Paul Custom from that era is as rare as it gets, and they command many times more than a regular 3-humbucker model. Doesn't bode well from these shots but can we see more photos please? How about front and back? Serial number? Back cavities?

I will post some more photos. Nothing great photo wise. There is a neck repair with no serial number. The pots date to 1960. Photos to follow soon. Thank you!

 

[slaphappygrandpa]

Ok, I didn’t want to influence anyone’s opinions. I bought this as a 1960 dual pickup Custom. At this point my thoughts are that this could be an earlier p90 Custom (pickup switch) that was sent to Gibson in 1960 and up fitted to humbuckers. Most feel that the cavity’s are weird, but in person the work is immaculate quality. Here are some more photos. Still look forward to people’s thoughts on this. Also, if it is what I possibly believe, what value would be correct? It plays and sounds better than a couple of bursts that I played side by side with it.

 

[poor man's burst]

On picture #3 there are evidences of Kluson Waffleback tuners ('59 or earlyer).
On picture #4, the pickup cut out corners on the pickguard have dissimilar radii, wich suggest they are hand made.
On picture #9, the routing for the pickup leg is larger at the bottom than at the top. That and the saw slot on the former picture tell that a piece of wood has been added over.
As of me, the finish on the guitar top looks like a refin or, at least, an overspray.
There are 2 groundwires: 1 solid going to the stop tailpiecepost (the usual one, but cut) and a braided one going to the bridge post.
Not forgetting the P-90's screw holes at the bridge pickup bottom cavity.

I hope you payed the price for a headstock repaired P-90/Alnico Les Paul Custom converted to PAFs and not for an headstock repaired original 2 PAFs 1960 Les Paul Custom.

 

[Frutiger]

^ All of the above and the fact the switch cavity is the earlier, smaller route. That and the neck route looks like a cross between the Alnico route and a PAF one, as you can still see the rounded route for the Alnico magnet adjusters at the very bottom of the cavity.

The work looks good though, I'd be inclined to think it's possibly factory work.

Also, the headstock looks to have been painted over when it was broken (there's black paint in the chips at the top of the headstock). I wonder if some very careful sanding might uncover the original number? If you paid two-pickup Custom money for it though, it needs to go back immediately.

 

[S. Weiger]

Ok, I didn’t want to influence anyone’s opinions.
I bought this as a 1960 dual pickup Custom. Hmm...
At this point my thoughts are that this could be an earlier p90 Custom (pickup switch) I think you are right about that.
that was sent to Gibson in 1960 and up fitted to humbuckers. Almost anything is possible with Gibson, BUT:
"There is a neck repair with no serial number. The pots date to 1960". No serial #.. How convenient.! And pots from 1960 can be bought. So can PAF's, especially with black M69's.
Most feel that the cavity’s are weird, but in person the work is immaculate quality. See Poor man's burst comments on that. I agree with him.
Here are some more photos. Still look forward to people’s thoughts on this. Also, if it is what I possibly believe, what value would be correct? It plays and sounds better than a couple of bursts that I played side by side with it.

View attachment 26604View attachment 26605View attachment 26606View attachment 26607View attachment 26608View attachment 26609View attachment 26610View attachment 26611View attachment 26612View attachment 26613

My thoughts in yellow, FWIW..

 

[S. Weiger]

But, the guitar looks really nice BTW.
And, as Poor man's Burst said, I too hope you did not pay more than an Alnico BB with headstock repair would command +some more if it has real PAF's.
I'd like to see the headstock front.

 

[dnabbet2]

My thoughts in yellow, FWIW..

And a refret, which is actually a good idea with 1950s Customs in my opinion.

Why not just source a pickguard though? (Hand cutting was well spotted -- I didn't think to look at it.)