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Advantages of an UNBALANCED pickup set.

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
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46
I'm unaware of any Pickup sets by the major winders where the Darker sounding pickup is destined for the Darker Sounding Neck position and the Brighter sounding pickup is destined for the bridge slot..
Jimmy Pages #1 had this through the iconic Zeppelin period..
What happens when this pairing occurs is you get 3 radically different voices as opposed to trying to 'balance' or mitigate those differences by typically putting a darker pickup in the treble spot and a brighter pickup in the neck spot.
Yes, I understand having the high wind in the neck can sometimes produce mud, but Jimmy Pages mid 8k neck pickup had lower output than the Mid 7s bridge due to a weak magnet.
It's the oddball stuff that often creates the mojo and conventionalism that sometimes creates mediocrity.
 

Tollywood

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Mar 16, 2022
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252
Thanks for that info, Bryan. I would have never thought to put them in that way, but I can’t argue with the magical results.

I am also a Bryan.
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
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46
Thanks for that info, Bryan. I would have never thought to put them in that way, but I can’t argue with the magical results.

I am also a Bryan.
Thanks for that info, Bryan. I would have never thought to put them in that way, but I can’t argue with the magical results.

I am also a Bryan.
Yes , Perhaps others could chime in more knowledgeable than me, but I was led to believe it wasn't super uncommon for a higher wind to go in the neck in the early ones?..If that being the case,it made for some fascinating variations on the factory floor which one loses today with modern day homogeneous electronics.
 

garywright

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Aug 17, 2002
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14,595
fwiw, I believe that Bill Lawrence offered what he called a Hendrix strat set years ago that had a hotter neck wind …no first hand experience with them though
 

thin sissy

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Jan 2, 2006
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2,611
My '55 has the hotter P90 in the neck. This, plus the expected wider string vibrations over the neck PU, makes the two positions unbalanced.

It's not a problem IMHO once you get to know it, AND I wonder if it gives a different flavor to the middle pos? Because this middle sounds better than all my previous experience in that position. (I should add, this particular guitar is bright and there is no mud on the neck pos at all)
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
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My '55 has the hotter P90 in the neck. This, plus the expected wider string vibrations over the neck PU, makes the two positions unbalanced.

It's not a problem IMHO once you get to know it, AND I wonder if it gives a different flavor to the middle pos? Because this middle sounds better than all my previous experience in that position. (I should add, this particular guitar is bright and there is no mud on the neck pos at all)
Absolutely!..The middle sound.. I get huge "phase cancellation" in the middle position even though it's "in phase" On my YT channel you can hear the 1973 Live Jimmy Page Tone .No Neck Mud like you say, Hollow Chirp Mid Sound, Tele on Steroids bridge...Sounds like 3 different guitars.
 

corpse

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Jun 9, 2007
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4,494
Viva la difference- eff sounding like everybody else. Sound like you- even if the guitar is providing the mojo. it's amazing how that spills into your playing!
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
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Spot on Corpse!..I got some 'hate' on my YT channel...One saying "Sounds Exactly like Pages #1..why would you want that ? Get your own sound!"....
.Well , you arn't going to get that with a Duncan 59, JB combo along with 10,000 others.
 

JLee

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Nov 27, 2010
Messages
78
Throbak’s Koss set has a hotter neck pickup. Fantastic set! I absolutely love my set. No mud in the neck position and I had no trouble getting it to balance with the bridge position.
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
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Throbak’s Koss set has a hotter neck pickup. Fantastic set! I absolutely love my set. No mud in the neck position and I had no trouble getting it to balance with the bridge position.
Thanks for that knowledge on Paul Kossoffs pickups..Jimmy's Neck was Electrically Hotter but Magnetically weaker than the Bridge .Neck was set at or below pickup ring.
 

uOpt

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Nov 20, 2007
Messages
161
The idea to compensate for more wind by weakening the magnet is something. I don't know what but something.
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
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The idea to compensate for more wind by weakening the magnet is something. I don't know what but something.
I wouldn't imagine on Jimmy's original neck PAF, the weak magnet was intended?Who knows? It may simply have been way out of spec.(It could have been dropped a few times haha)..What is the case,is a regular 'boutique PAF " neck PUP of the many winders out there , won't do that sound.
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
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https://www.throbak.com/paf-pickups-throbak-mt-102b.html- Mick Taylor set ,https://www.throbak.com/paf-pickups-throbak-mt-102b.html-Paul Kossoff 2 sets of pickups with the neck higher in output than the bridge pickup .
https://www.throbak.com/paf-pickups-throbak-mt-102b.html- Mick Taylor set ,https://www.throbak.com/paf-pickups-throbak-mt-102b.html-Paul Kossoff 2 sets of pickups with the neck higher in output than the bridge pickup .
Pageys neck was "sort of" higher output depending on your definition of High output.. Yes ,it was higher DCR than the bridge, but lower in output than the bridge.(electrically strong/magnetically weak)
 

ADP

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Jul 16, 2015
Messages
329
I have often put the bridge pickup in the neck and the neck in the bridge. I was taught that at a young age. I think more guy's did that than seems to be talked about.

But the magnet, the steel, the wind-pattern, it all makes a difference in a P.A.F.

I wonder if the coils were out of phase with eachother on Jimmy's #1 neck pickup, nobody seems to talk about that tonal phenomenon either.
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
Messages
46
I have often put the bridge pickup in the neck and the neck in the bridge. I was taught that at a young age. I think more guy's did that than seems to be talked about.

But the magnet, the steel, the wind-pattern, it all makes a difference in a P.A.F.

I wonder if the coils were out of phase with eachother on Jimmy's #1 neck pickup, nobody seems to talk about that tonal phenomenon either.
His neck PAF was like none other I've heard..Using the info I got from Clive Coulson, I've got within a 'hair ' of that sound on my YT channel..Type in 'Bryan Williams Jimmy Page ' and you'll hear the recreation of the live Madison Square Garden tones from 1973.. The 1st half of the No Quarter Solo is by far the best Blueprint we have of the neck pickup.. (due to the minimal signal path)
 

ADP

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Jul 16, 2015
Messages
329
I have a Tom Holmes (doublewhite no-less!) that sounds VERY close. Super articulate near woody acoustic like flavor yet full clarity and power behind it all. Quite amazing.

It is actually fro. a "Peter Green" set so the coils are out of phase as well as the magnet flipped. That's actually what Led me to say that (pun intended)
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
Messages
46
I have a Tom Holmes (doublewhite no-less!) that sounds VERY close. Super articulate near woody acoustic like flavor yet full clarity and power behind it all. Quite amazing.

It is actually fro. a "Peter Green" set so the coils are out of phase as well as the magnet flipped. That's actually what Led me to say that (pun intended)
The T Top in the bridge helps get that "Middle Hollow Chirp" as well.. His 1971 4x T Top loaded Double Neck has it in spades. You can hear it on the Live Stairway Solo which is played in the middle position (albeit 99.99% of imitators insist on playing it on the treble Pickup!)
 

JLee

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Nov 27, 2010
Messages
78
I wonder if the 2 pickups are close in actual output. You get a nice hollow, chirpy middle position tone when both pickups are the same or close in output. My old Rewind Low Output set were very close in output and had the best middle position tone.
 

Bryansamui

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Jul 1, 2022
Messages
46
I wonder if the 2 pickups are close in actual output. You get a nice hollow, chirpy middle position tone when both pickups are the same or close in output. My old Rewind Low Output set were very close in output and had the best middle position tone.
Yes.. Jimmy's ( and my replicas) are very close in output but VERY different in DCR.
 
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