Are Gibson LP lovers snobs?

[Grand Toad]

Got to get in here. I am not a snob, I am not, I tell you. I'm a guitar bigot, yeah that's it, I'm a guitar bigot. I have an R9 because I can. I have wanted a sunburst Standard since I was about 13. Now I have one. My R9 had a couple of finish flaws (easy fix = 1000 grit wet and dry, polish and wax), but it plays, and sounds great. Heck, I even like the Burstbuckers. But my uncle tells me, "all your taste is in your mouth." :salude

I had a Jimmie Vaughan Strat, which was a great guitar. The JV is made in Mexico. I am going to look for another one. In a fit of stupidity I sold the one I had.

Good guitars are good guitars, and bad guitars are bad (hey I'm soundin' like Yogi Bera).

I am not a bigot, I'm an elitest. People who don't have real Les Pauls are mere peasants. :2lol

 

[generankin]

Re: Yes, I'm a snob about my guitars

Cool, but would you then get rid of your R9? And if you did would you still have a Gibson (assuming you don't have some more out back that is )?

Not at all. I'd just have more guitars. I've got a WWII-vintage SJ that's been rode hard & put away wet, that I've dragged around for near 45 years, doesn't sound near as good as the Alvarez-Yairi, but it does have that mojo, does sound as 'right' as it ought to.

 

[generankin]

Re: Yes, I'm a snob about my guitars

And that's not the point. If it truly sounds better than your R9, and this imaginary guitar is manufactured consistently enough that many others experience this, Then that guitar maker would have accomplished something no other maker has been able to do in 60 years. It would be it's own thing, with it's own following, with it's own forum where enthusiasts get together and share their experiences with one another. They wouldn't have to come to the LPF to "make their point".
The guitar would be sold on it's own merit, with no reference to Gibson, or LesPaul. Copies of it would be made, and sold at 1/3 the cost.
But people would still buy Gibson guitars to play, as investments, to look at, or just to say I have a Gibson, none of which makes them snobs.

Sorry, but it is the point. Are you picking an instrument for what it sounds like, or are you buying a logo? I've had Gibsons probably for longer than many of folks on the LPF have been alive, but I'm not bamboozled by the name on the headstock. Gibson has made loads of excellent instruments, and has made loads of crummy ones ... as amply evidenced on this forum where people know infinitely more about LPs than I do.

When I buy an axe, I buy it by ear. I just bought a Chinese mandolin, a copy of a Gibson F5. It sold for a fraction of the price of present Gibsons, even Webers (mandolin players will get the irony here), and is the equal of instruments 3X its cost. Sure, the high-end Gibson mandos are superb instruments, but they are priced absurdly (if you think this forum is critical of Gibson's present sales policies, you oughta hear the folks on the mando lists), and ain't nobody signing onto their multi-year-long waiting lists (as if they have one) as they are for Gilchrists and Dudenbostels.

Brand loyalty that flies in the face of reality may not be snobbery, but it comes close ... and it sure ain't rational. :couch

 

[blues4jesus]

I detected a bit of distain by some in a parallel thread regarding Gibson introducing some lower cost guitars (under a different name). I have often heard the same feelings regarding Epiphone. Why is this emotion so strong?

I don't see the same sentiment at the Fender Forum regarding their guitars. I just purchased a fairly modest priced telecaster ($450 MIM 50's classic) and it seems that folks at that site would applaud you for trying one out. No one claims it is the same as a Custom Shop Nocaster, but no one disses you for buying a cheap copy either. Really, no one seems to care that it was made in Mexico. In fact, I think there is a feeling there that it can be a great starting place from which one can then customize/alter the guitar and make it into a fine instrument.

I have never heard anyone here applaud someone's effort to take an Epiphone and make it into a real player. Is this because we don't accept the fact that Gibson makes any entry level guitars? Are we subconciously concerned that any consideration of lower priced guitars lowers the value of our own guitars? :ahem

I would have to 100% agree, Gibson when in the Kalamazoo plant was setting the bar no doubt, but that was before some of these other companies came into play. Including Heritage which IMHO especially with the the ones built within the 1st 20 yrs were killing Gibson on all counts. The ones the fear the sue. They have not really done anything iconic since the move except maybe a slash model which would make it a copy of a copy. Alot of play on fans of certain artist with their signature models and R series Murphy lab(5g to beat up a guitar? Ill do it for 1g) every few years they have more historic LOL or the new $1000.00 hardshell case Humbuckers they are toting now. I've owned many Gibson's but returned almost all because of flaws qc issues etc. If your gonna be cocky about your product ya best be 100% out of the box except for a personal setup. Too many better options out there. Epiphone lately has been right up there and in some cases offering better with their models. Gibson needs to get their heads out of the clouds and remember who and why they build guitars. Go back to basic models offer standard and custom like in old days but offer multiple options for both without breaking the bank. They are not as handmade as they claim so.... there's that. anyway. Yep the attacks on other brands by them and owners is crazy hard to admit they over payed... Sighs

 

[hoss]

Congratulation on replying to a 19 year old post, well done!

 

[J T]

Congratulation on replying to a 19 year old post, well done!

Still a valid point it seems.

Hey there Hoss! Hope all's well there.

 

[jb_abides]

Things are so moribund we should welcome thread resurrections by interested users.

with less snark we are seeing.

 

[hoss]

I am sorry, welcome blues4jesus

 

[Bryansamui]

I see it like this. If one had say $10,000 to spend on a guitar and the driving motivator was Prestige then spend the $10,000..If the criteria was simply sonics and playability, then you'd audition everything over $1,000.
Acoustic guitars ? Same thing.In my shop I had relatively inexpensive Yamaha's over the years that were incredible instruments. The Doctors and Lawyers however, would still make a bee line for the Martin Stand.
They'd also buy a Rolex watch over a Japanese watch even though the 2 items did the same thing .

 

[S. Weiger]

I see it like this. If one had say $10,000 to spend on a guitar and the driving motivator was Prestige then spend the $10,000..If the criteria was simply sonics and playability, then you'd audition everything over $1,000.
Acoustic guitars ? Same thing.In my shop I had relatively inexpensive Yamaha's over the years that were incredible instruments. The Doctors and Lawyers however, would still make a bee line for the Martin Stand.
They'd also buy a Rolex watch over a Japanese watch even though the 2 items did the same thing .

I think that segment is also considering the investment potential / resale value that comes with the bragging right of such purchases. Some of these buyers can't even fret a single chord..

Funny how this subject reminds me of the 'good old days' in the vintage section.. OOPS did I just open a can 'o worms? ?

 

[Bryansamui]

I think that segment is also considering the investment potential / resale value that comes with the bragging right of such purchases. Some of these buyers can't even fret a single chord..

Funny how this subject reminds me of the 'good old days' in the vintage section.. OOPS did I just open a can 'o worms? ?

The 'Bragging Rights' are legit.
However, very few modern expensive Gibsons are more expensive used than new. Most are liabilities not investments. I have an "Unplayed Brand New " 1998 Standard Plus from my Shop ( since closed). It's still in negative territory investment wise 25 yrs later as I can't even get the current new retail for it!
You actually lose far less on a Cheap Chinese guitar simply because they cost you nothing to start with..

 

[S. Weiger]

The 'Bragging Rights' are legit.
However, very few modern expensive Gibsons are more expensive used than new. Most are liabilities not investments. I have an "Unplayed Brand New " 1998 Standard Plus from my Shop ( since closed). It's still in negative territory investment wise 25 yrs later as I can't even get the current new retail for it!
You actually lose far less on a Cheap Chinese guitar simply because they cost you nothing to start with..

Yes that's what I'm talking about: some LE Gibsons have risen considerably, e.g. JP #1, Rossington LP, 2013 Harrison "Lucy".
And some of the Collectors choice models too.

 

[Bryansamui]

Yes that's what I'm talking about: some LE Gibsons have risen considerably, e.g. JP #1, Rossington LP, 2013 Harrison "Lucy".
And some of the Collectors choice models too.

Sure, some Gibsons have gone up in value, like the models you mention,but the vast majority haven't. Epiphone Korina type Flying Vs have doubled in value in 25 years as have early Japanese Strats but even those have only really marked time with inflation.
Today I buy guitars to enjoy. For investments I look elsewhere , at a balanced share portfolio.(I'm not getting rich with that either ?)

 

[Big Al]

An awful lot are. Brand loyalty is not snobbery. Owning a Gibson LP for status is. That is what I see mostly. Status seeking naybobs fixed upon how exclusive their ultra limited clone or blinged out unobtainium franklin mint issue of the year is or which rank it has. All the many Greeny issues perfectly illustrate it. Top police and spec hunters. You know, it has to have this kind of top, (it's more authentic), and must weigh less than a fairy's eyelash, etc., etc,..... it gets nauseating.

It sucks the joy from those who play and value the amazing musical value they have as musical instruments, or ideals of form and function.

 

[J T]

The thing is, lately most people who glance up from their phone for a few seconds might be able to recognize the fact that it is actually a guitar, and perhaps, for the observant few, an electric guitar, then quickly resume thumbing that phone. For those that are actually interested and recognize the fact that it is a Gibson, that guitar holds a place of, lets say recognition. Ah, it's a Gibson.

Snob? Maybe just someone who knows the difference.

 

[woolyfox]

I've owned two Gibsons and being Gibsons was just a bonus as I liked the guitar (CS-336 and a Johnny A Spruce Top). If another guitar company made those models in a similar fashion and I was able to try them, then I would get them.

I'm currently waiting on delivery of by 3rd Gibson, a used gold top R4, as I couldn't find anything locally that was similar or in my price range. My local Long McQuaid had a Murphy Lab heavy relic R4 for double what I paid for the second hand R4, I don't like the aged neck as it had a noticeable ridge all the binding where finish had been "worn".

Of course there will always be alternatives to Gibson guitars for all price ranges and the purists will always vouch for "their" brand (see Ford Vs Chevy guys) but that's human nature.

Tbh, if there was a Sire or Reverend dealer near me with stock, I would probably have walked out with one of those.

 

[Bryansamui]

I've owned two Gibsons and being Gibsons was just a bonus as I liked the guitar (CS-336 and a Johnny A Spruce Top). If another guitar company made those models in a similar fashion and I was able to try them, then I would get them.

I'm currently waiting on delivery of by 3rd Gibson, a used gold top R4, as I couldn't find anything locally that was similar or in my price range. My local Long McQuaid had a Murphy Lab heavy relic R4 for double what I paid for the second hand R4, I don't like the aged neck as it had a noticeable ridge all the binding where finish had been "worn".

Of course there will always be alternatives to Gibson guitars for all price ranges and the purists will always vouch for "their" brand (see Ford Vs Chevy guys) but that's human nature.

Tbh, if there was a Sire or Reverend dealer near me with stock, I would probably have walked out with one of those.

It's all subjective isn't it?..It's not Rocket Science to build a great playing/ sounding guitar.Excellent Luthiers the world over build great guitars with all names on the head stock.

Where people get mistaken is the myth that ALL Gibson guitars must be superior than 'ALL Copies' of Gibson Guitars which isn't true .My 2021 Tokai LP is a case in point where (to me) , it has a fair bit more magic than my CS Gibsons..Many copies would not be inferior from a sonic or playability viewpoint.
Sure, Gibson can build a fine guitar but they've built their fair share of mediocre ones as well.(as have all brands)

 

[YoSkip]

Like Dick Vermeil said with wine... Try it. Do you like it? If you like it, then it's a good guitar. The rest is just snobbery. I have played some Gibsons that are absolute trash.

One of my favorite guitars is an Epiphone Les Paul that I have. There is a reason I haven't sold it in 25 years.

 

[Bryansamui]

Like Dick Vermeil said with wine... Try it. Do you like it? If you like it, then it's a good guitar. The rest is just snobbery. I have played some Gibsons that are absolute trash.

One of my favorite guitars is an Epiphone Les Paul that I have. There is a reason I haven't sold it in 25 years.

Spot on!..You can pay money for the badge, 'Story/Heritage ' .My 2021 Tokai LP at $1800 AUD is nicer (imo) than my CS 57 made to measure at $8,000.. The Custom Shop is worth more simply because it's more 'desirable'..(not because it's better)
Prices are set by manufacturers as to what the market will stand. Price is not always an indicator of 'better or worse'

 

[YoSkip]

Spot on!..You can pay money for the badge, 'Story/Heritage ' .My 2021 Tokai LP at $1800 AUD is nicer (imo) than my CS 57 made to measure at $8,000.. The Custom Shop is worth more simply because it's more 'desirable'..(not because it's better)
Prices are set by manufacturers as to what the market will stand. Price is not always an indicator of 'better or worse'

Tokai guitars are unbelievable for the price. I think the nicest guitar I ever played was actually a Tokai. The craftsmanship was 11/10. Can't say enough good about some of those guitars.