Closer to a Burst: Conversion or Max Baranet?

[brandtkronholm]

Just curious. What year bursts have you played? And what year are your Byrdland and ES345?

I’ve played all the distinct iterations of the 1958-1960 Les Paul Standard. I’ve played them through proper amps too, mostly my Mesa Boogie MKIII, but also a tweed Bassman and my black panel Super Reverb. I’ve also had (for a very, very short time, I didn’t own it) a 1958(?) Custom with 3 humbuckers, original flat frets. I’ve played a few original humbuckered gold tops. They were all delightful, some much more so than others, some not quite as sweet as my R9 - yup, I said that - I think one was kinda lame. It was a 1960. Alas.

ES345: early 1959, black Varitone ring, not a first rack. All original except Schallers that were put on in the very early 1970s. I love the Varitone, the stereo I deal with so it’s it an issue.

Byrdland: mid/late 1960, blonde, crazy maple, Florentine cut away, reflector knobs, two piece neck, one piece back. Killer!
Link: 1960 Byrdland

 

[jimmi]

I’ve played all the distinct iterations of the 1958-1960 Les Paul Standard. I’ve played them through proper amps too, mostly my Mesa Boogie MKIII, but also a tweed Bassman and my black panel Super Reverb. I’ve also had (for a very, very short time, I didn’t own it) a 1958(?) Custom with 3 humbuckers, original flat frets. I’ve played a few original humbuckered gold tops. They were all delightful, some much more so than others, some not quite as sweet as my R9 - yup, I said that - I think one was kinda lame. It was a 1960. Alas.

ES345: early 1959, black Varitone ring, not a first rack. All original except Schallers that were put on in the very early 1970s. I love the Varitone, the stereo I deal with so it’s it an issue.

Byrdland: mid/late 1960, blonde, crazy maple, Florentine cut away, reflector knobs, two piece neck, one piece back. Killer!
Link: 1960 Byrdland

As much as I like the look of bursts I think my favorite guitar might just be one of my Goldtops. Neck is great, sounds fantastic. I left the original small frets and still great. Either that or my beater ‘54 conversion with the Bigsby that I bought when I was a teenager. All the finish is worn away off the neck down to the bare wood. Finally had it refretted about 7-8 yrs ago. Very lively guitar. A lot oh history with it. Was my first vintage guitar….

How hard is it to get used to the Byrdland neck and narrow string spacing?

I have flirted with 3 pickup customs in the past. There was one of the rare ‘61s at carters a few years ago for what now would be a screaming great deal but I talk myself out of it because I usually don’t like the middle position.

 

[brandtkronholm]

As much as I like the look of bursts I think my favorite guitar might just be one of my Goldtops. Neck is great, sounds fantastic. I left the original small frets and still great. Either that or my beater ‘54 conversion with the Bigsby that I bought when I was a teenager. All the finish is worn away off the neck down to the bare wood. Finally had it refretted about 7-8 yrs ago. Very lively guitar. A lot oh history with it. Was my first vintage guitar….

How hard is it to get used to the Byrdland neck and narrow string spacing?

I have flirted with 3 pickup customs in the past. There was one of the rare ‘61s at carters a few years ago for what now would be a screaming great deal but I talk myself out of it because I usually don’t like the middle position.

Byrdland: it’s no big deal moving from 24 3/4” (Les Paul) to 23 1/2” (Byrdland) at all. After a minute it’s fine; after a week, it’s second nature.

Les Paul Custom: Yes, please! Maybe someday I’ll call up the Custom Shop and git m’self one like in the picture below - “Switchmaster-style”! (Unless they start building spruce-top-hollow EDS reissues, then I’ll have an EDS1235 with the mini-six neck on top — white with black headstock and heel stingers!)



Thread successfully derailed!

 

[c_wester]

Edit...

 

[JazzMuzak]

I like it.

Pickups and guts: I’m spoiled with PAFs, Luxe bumblebees, and ‘50s wiring in my 1995 R9. The stock pots are great, I love them.

I own two other PAF Gibsons, a 1960 Byrdland and a 1959 ES345. I have a 2022 EDS1275. I feel a little sheepish saying it, but the new Gibson reissues are just as good, maybe up to the “mojo”.

I’m really impressed with the new pickups and guts in the Gibson reissues, especially over the past few years. The post-Covid stuff has been just amazing. In fact, for the past decade or more, the Gibson reissue/custom shop guitars have been just as good as any vintage Gibson I’ve played on that same time span.

So, skip the conversions, pass on the replicas. The new custom shop Gibson Les Pauls are the business.

Very much agree. For years my benchmark for guitars was a 1959 Les Paul Special my uncle owns. My 2023 R9 is every bit as good, maybe better depending on my mood that day. The new CS Gibsons are truly exceptional.

 

[ScumbackSpeakers]

I own two replicas, they sound and play great. One has original PAF's, the other (Keebler) has Jim Wagner Darkburst pickups. The last one I got in 2015 I left my 59 Jr with the builder to measure the neck, and duplicate it. I also had the s/n be the next sequential number to my 59 Jr. Quite often players have brought over their 50th or 60th Anniversary R9's to compare and they leave pretty disappointed after playing one of my replicas.

It depends on the wood, pickups, wiring, and mostly the skill of the builder.

 

[corpse]

I have a buddy who owns a Keebler and several bursts. His desert Islnd guitar is the Keebler.

 

[bern1]

Whatever floats your boat obviously. I've played and owned original sunbursts. I also owned a conversion. (The only kind to have imo, a '56 with PAF's.) Sonically and feelwise there was no difference. However, in my opinion, at the end of the day a PAF equipped Goldtop conversion is simply a masquerade. A famous model lookalike with fake tits and a lot of plastic surgery.

With the choices available today and with the Gibson reissues as good as they are, as well as the various new pickups available, I would not either do, commission, or buy a conversion in this day and age.

 

[asapmaz]

Doesn't really matter which sounds closer. To me, conversions are destroyed vintage guitars. The market needs to be done with conversions. Like some of the posters said, there are so many choices available now for burst approximations, that noone should destroy vintage guitars. They should restore them, no matter how bad of a shape they're in.
Regarding the OP's initial question, a conversion or a Max, it depends on the guitar. Each one has to be evaluated on its own merits. A given Max can sound better than a given old wood conversion. It just depends. But the thing is a Max is nowhere near the most accurate replicas made today anyways. He just happened to build some great replicas back in the day when not many were building them and when Gibson's product was simply inferior. Now, that has completely changed. I would go as far as to say the reissues Gibson is building today clearly surpass most of the Max's from back in the day, assuming they're equipped with similar electronics. And, some of the replica builders today would blow the builders of the past out of the water. A Max is cool from a historical perspective. He's become a part of Gibson's history in a way because of the fame associated with his builds. I would chase a Max for investment or bragging rights reasons but not for burst tone or accuracy reasons. I would target other builders for those purposes. Conversions, I don't even bother with looking at the ads. To me, they're just greedy money grabs.

 

[Dave P]

It all depends on who did the conversions. I've seen and played some really great ones, but also seen and played some that were dreadful with hack job workmanship.

 

[jimmi]

Doesn't really matter which sounds closer. To me, conversions are destroyed vintage guitars. The market needs to be done with conversions. Like some of the posters said, there are so many choices available now for burst approximations, that noone should destroy vintage guitars. They should restore them, no matter how bad of a shape they're in.
Regarding the OP's initial question, a conversion or a Max, it depends on the guitar. Each one has to be evaluated on its own merits. A given Max can sound better than a given old wood conversion. It just depends. But the thing is a Max is nowhere near the most accurate replicas made today anyways. He just happened to build some great replicas back in the day when not many were building them and when Gibson's product was simply inferior. Now, that has completely changed. I would go as far as to say the reissues Gibson is building today clearly surpass most of the Max's from back in the day, assuming they're equipped with similar electronics. And, some of the replica builders today would blow the builders of the past out of the water. A Max is cool from a historical perspective. He's become a part of Gibson's history in a way because of the fame associated with his builds. I would chase a Max for investment or bragging rights reasons but not for burst tone or accuracy reasons. I would target other builders for those purposes. Conversions, I don't even bother with looking at the ads. To me, they're just greedy money grabs.

You can’t always put the Genie back into the bottle. The old conversions are their own market. Plenty around. So agree no need to do new ones. Trying to put them back in most cases is futile. Many are fantastic …many aren’t because of workmanship

 

[boogieongtr]

They should restore them, no matter how bad of a shape they're in.

You should restore a few then try to sell them. That will change your mind. Most of the time it's a losing proposition.

 

[Dishimyuh]

I'm in the market for the closest thing to a real Burst within a more reasonable budget.
Between a conversion and a Max, both with real PAF's, what would be your choice?
I know each guitar should be evaluated by its own merits, but having at least a guideline would be helpful.
Thank you all.

If the budget allowed it then I would try to find a conversion.

 

[goldtop0]

With the PAF thing it can be very hit and miss, you could be going round and around for years or strike it lucky first up, either way it'll be an interesting journey for you.
Here's to the search

 

[ScumbackSpeakers]

I've had 12 sets of PAF's, three were keepers. I buy Jim Wagner Pickups https://www.jimwagnerpickups.com/ when I need PAF tone now.

 

[ScumbackSpeakers]

I've had 12 sets of PAF's, three were keepers. I buy Jim Wagner Pickups, https://www.jimwagnerpickups.com/ when I need PAF tone now.