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For you guys that own them what you think is the long term sustainability of a Burst?

class5lp

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May 10, 2005
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1,629
Let me run a quick example by you. In addition to guitars I am heavy into collecting mint vintage Lionel Trains from the 1950's. Another baby boomer thing if you will. From 1995 to about 2002 was the very peak of the market. In the early 2000's guys were paying any where from $5000 to $250,000 for mint examples of 1950's Lionel Train passenger sets depending on the rarity and how desirable they were. Many examples sold in the 25K to 50K range and the market was very strong. A very good collector friend of mine predicted that in about a decade (around 2013) prices would fall dramatically as the baby boomers were getting older, dying off, and lack of interest and the ever changing family dynamic. Another words there was no collectors behind these guys that had the interest they had in post war trains because they were too young, didn't grow up with that stuff, and there was nobody behind them to back them up. I called me friend a crack pot and told him brand new Lionel postwar passenger trains will always pull huge numbers. He was right and I was wrong! Keep in mind there were only about 50 collectors or less in the entire country that controlled the market and demand for such high end trains. Now these same sets that brought big money then are going for half or less than they were then.

Like the example above I am inclined to say that a Burst will always bring big money and the market seems strong on them today. But what about 25 years from now? Who will be there backing you guys up in 25 years? What collectors can you think today that are in their 20's or 30's that will have the cash to buy these things then when they are in their 50's? I have had a few discussions with Gil Hembree on this very thing. I am wondering what the views are from the guys that really own them? Who will be there to back you up?
 

JJ Blair

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user103207_pic103601_1290573044.jpg
 

Vic DaPra

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In all due respect, I've heard this argument since the early 80's when bursts hit 10k...Yes, there is a concern for buyers who bought these as an investment but come tomorrow if my bursts are worth a hundred bucks each , then shame on me but I got millions of dollars worth of enjoyment out of them . I've got to deal with some of my heroes I grew up listening to and had the opportunity to play and own some great guitars . Yea, I would be bummed if the values just tanked but it's my decision to hold for now . Maybe it's stupid but I just don't think of them as an investment. I guess I'm refusing to grow up, I don't know. But as of today, the burst market is pretty strong. Two versions of BURST BELIEVERS have sold well enough to do a third edition . Not my call either, I was asked to do it . So all in all, Sunbursts have been very good to me...LOL....
 

class5lp

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May 10, 2005
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In all due respect, I've heard this argument since the early 80's when bursts hit 10k...Yes, there is a concern for buyers who bought these as an investment but come tomorrow if my bursts are worth a hundred bucks each , then shame on me but I got millions of dollars worth of enjoyment out of them . I've got to deal with some of my heroes I grew up listening to and had the opportunity to play and own some great guitars . Yea, I would be bummed if the values just tanked but it's my decision to hold for now . Maybe it's stupid but I just don't think of them as an investment. I guess I'm refusing to grow up, I don't know. But as of today, the burst market is pretty strong. Two versions of BURST BELIEVERS have sold well enough to do a third edition . Not my call either, I was asked to do it . So all in all, Sunbursts have been very good to me...LOL....

I agree with everything you say. But if a guy don't own one today or didn't buy one back in the day and is considering buying one now I wonder what they might be worth in 25 years. Even if there is a pull back they will still cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range.
 

Cliff Gress

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Aug 26, 2004
Messages
3,301
Hopefully time will make men more wise.

Guy asks a question and told it is shit. Nice.
 

58burst

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May 11, 2002
Messages
2,176
To address the title, my '58 has more sustain than any other guitar I've played! :laugh2:
The other question, either the guitar is the main issue for you, or the $ is the main issue. The money is unpredictable, the guitar isn't. My '58 will sound and play as good WHATEVER the market's doing, and IMO that's the only sane way to approach these things-
 

JJ Blair

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Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,462
Cliff, this same question happens every few months. It's been discussed ad nauseum. Here's what happens: The question gets asked, guys who don't own them argue the prices can't last, and guys who do own them argue they will. Then Stradavariuses get brought up, then Ferraris. Same thing every time. There's 30 threads on it, and a current one on MLP always.
 

Tom Wittrock

Les Paul Forum Co-Owner
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Aug 2, 2001
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42,567
I agree with everything you say. But if a guy don't own one today or didn't buy one back in the day and is considering buying one now I wonder what they might be worth in 25 years. Even if there is a pull back they will still cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range.

Hopefully, you will have gotten great value from it during those 25 years. If you didn't, it was a poor choice. Remember, what they are worth is more than just a dollar figure.
But, there' only speculation for the answer to this question.
 

class5lp

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May 10, 2005
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1,629
Cliff, this same question happens every few months. It's been discussed ad nauseum. Here's what happens: The question gets asked, guys who don't own them argue the prices can't last, and guys who do own them argue they will. Then Stradavariuses get brought up, then Ferraris. Same thing every time. There's 30 threads on it, and a current one on MLP always.

The funny thing is I didn't argue any of the points you bring up in your reply. I merely showed an example of one collectable and wanted to get the opinion of the guys that own them not the guys that don't. I don't care what the opinion is of the guys that don't. I only want to hear from the experts that own them.
 

talonmm

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Mar 7, 2015
Messages
179
I only want to hear from the experts that own them.

Ok, I believe I'm qualified to give this a shot....

I just bought my first 1959 burst and I am more a collector than a great player (I play, but not great).

1) First off, if you are going to loose sleep over your "investment" than move on and don't buy it.

2) If you have to finance the purchase, than move on, it's not worth the headache from an investment stand point

3) I purchased one because I have sound investments in many other fields, so if my guitar one day is worth 1/10th of what I paid for it, I will be fine. If you will be ruined if the guitar goes way down in value, than move on.

Now, like you, I came from a collectibles marketplace (sports memorabilia).

The parallels between the Honus Wagner T206 (the world's most desirable baseball card) and 58-60 bursts are amazing:

Both items are incredibly rare, and highly sought by collectors (and both became highly collectible and in demand for unusual reasons)

Both items have gone through the roof, selling for many multiples of what they sold for a couple of decades ago

Both items have similar collectibles that have gone up and down (ie vintage sg guitars, Strats, other rare baseball cards) but yet, as time goes on, the Wagner Card and the Les Paul Bursts are the most special and most desired).

The Wagner card is over 100 years old, so no one was alive when these were collected by "kids", after many generations of card collectors, the card is still desired by collectors who never saw Wagner play, or don't know the thrill of opening up a pack of cigarettes and pulling this card)

So don't ague that kids don't listen to Rock anymore, or that there are less kids. Classic quality is always collectible, 1980 charvels, not so much.

There are about 60 real Wagners in the world and a percentage of surviving original bursts (a percentage from 1,700 pieces).

You can buy a Wagner reprint for $2.00 yet that has not hurt the market place and you can buy a reissue for a couple of thousand dollars. I did, and you know what, it made me want a real one even more.
 

sws1

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Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,846
Ok, I believe I'm qualified to give this a shot....

I just bought my first 1959 burst and I am more a collector than a great player (I play, but not great).

1) First off, if you are going to loose sleep over your "investment" than move on and don't buy it.

2) If you have to finance the purchase, than move on, it's not worth the headache from an investment stand point

3) I purchased one because I have sound investments in many other fields, so if my guitar one day is worth 1/10th of what I paid for it, I will be fine. If you will be ruined if the guitar goes way down in value, than move on.

Now, like you, I came from a collectibles marketplace (sports memorabilia).

The parallels between the Honus Wagner T206 (the world's most desirable baseball card) and 58-60 bursts are amazing:

Both items are incredibly rare, and highly sought by collectors (and both became highly collectible and in demand for unusual reasons)

Both items have gone through the roof, selling for many multiples of what they sold for a couple of decades ago

Both items have similar collectibles that have gone up and down (ie vintage sg guitars, Strats, other rare baseball cards) but yet, as time goes on, the Wagner Card and the Les Paul Bursts are the most special and most desired).

The Wagner card is over 100 years old, so no one was alive when these were collected by "kids", after many generations of card collectors, the card is still desired by collectors who never saw Wagner play, or don't know the thrill of opening up a pack of cigarettes and pulling this card)

So don't ague that kids don't listen to Rock anymore, or that there are less kids. Classic quality is always collectible, 1980 charvels, not so much.

There are about 60 real Wagners in the world and a percentage of surviving original bursts (a percentage from 1,700 pieces).

You can buy a Wagner reprint for $2.00 yet that has not hurt the market place and you can buy a reissue for a couple of thousand dollars. I did, and you know what, it made me want a real one even more.

BTW - What does an original one of those baseball cards go for?
 

Ed Driscoll

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Apr 24, 2002
Messages
4,691
The sustainability of the 'Burst is measured quite scientifically by this legendary guitarist and filmmaker:

 

TM1

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Jun 27, 2003
Messages
8,349
Ah.. the Tap!! A former bandmate and still a friend, Paulie Shortino was "Duke Fame" in that movie..
 

wharris

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Feb 4, 2009
Messages
204
Cliff, this same question happens every few months. It's been discussed ad nauseum. Here's what happens: The question gets asked, guys who don't own them argue the prices can't last, and guys who do own them argue they will. Then Stradavariuses get brought up, then Ferraris. Same thing every time. There's 30 threads on it, and a current one on MLP always.
And then...Yngwie gets brought up.
<script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/b9927fef/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>
 

Cliff Gress

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Aug 26, 2004
Messages
3,301
Cliff, this same question happens every few months. It's been discussed ad nauseum. Here's what happens: The question gets asked, guys who don't own them argue the prices can't last, and guys who do own them argue they will. Then Stradavariuses get brought up, then Ferraris. Same thing every time. There's 30 threads on it, and a current one on MLP always.

Thanks. I know this. My point was that members should treat each other with respect.
 
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