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Henry has his troubles

Beano Geno

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Mar 12, 2007
Messages
3,631
If the lenders start to tighten up and enforce the covenants on Gibson's line for operating cash, it could force a change in ownership. Or the lenders could demand broader management participation themselves. Things may be changing at Gibson. Hopefully for the employees, some meaningful change occurs.
 
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olgabowl

Guest
Things may be changing at Gibson. Hopefully for the employees, some meaningful change occurs.

I've been waiting so-ooo long for this feces to hit the fan...

And this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg....
 

tonyj

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Feb 11, 2010
Messages
384
The later 'Henry J. years' may become symbolic of what Gibson guitars not to buy in future.

Remember a disgruntled or unhappy employee doesn't always produce his or her best work.

It remains to be seen how the present negative climate in the World of Gibson (Nashville, Montana etc.,) will ultimately affect the end product.

Many of us have already heard of QC problems which are perhaps reflecting this downward trend already. I hope not.

Gibson, its employees and customers, all deserve better.
 

Sea Bass

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Feb 19, 2004
Messages
555
The AMF years of Gibson. Yet another American brand who is out of touch with reality. They are following the same lines Harley Davidson has gone.

Trying to come up with young/hip models that attract a different demographic, yet their prices continue to remain steady and climb in most instances. I've found the young crowds don't care any more about a young/hip model than older demographics, especially when the gap in prices is not that great.

Let a young player decide between the LP Robot and an R7-R9 and I'm sure they'll still choose the R's - if prices were manageable. Just like Harley Davidson, who cares about the Cross Bones models when they are the same prices as Softail Deluxes or other models designed for an older demographic.

These companies continue to try to pawn of junk to young audiences as the hip, cool product. I'm not saying Gibson should start making more drastic and edgy guitars (God no, there's enough of them already). I'm just saying that stick to your core competency (The Les Pauls, SGs, and Hollowbodies) and be the best in the world at it. How can you continue to command prices that are astronomical when many people don't even get to see a Gibson retailer (non-GC) within 200 miles of where they live? How can you expect people to continue to buy your product when everyone knows the quality has decreased so drastically.

I remember several years ago I had the opportunity to get a couple 2003 brazilian rosewood R7GTs for $1850/ea. I kick myself for not buying them up. Even still, 2003 was not a great year for Gibson; at that time historics weren't exactly historic, to say the least.

And this isn't even getting to the recent issues with workforce sentiment or financial legalities!
 
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olgabowl

Guest
And this isn't even getting to the recent issues with workforce sentiment or financial legalities!

Or dealing in illegal tonewoods, or treatment of vendors, or dealership costs, or, and, or, and..........ad finitum......
Scheech....
 

dwagar

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Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
4,328
A reporter trying to create a story. All this article is really talking about, after removing the anti-Gibson rant, is lack of financial reporting. And that isn't all that uncommon in large corporations. It reads to me that the original financials weren't going to be reporting as Henry wanted them to be - there are different ways to look at numbers.

Embedded in there is 'remarkable earnings [if correct]' and 'relatively light debt burden'. I seriously doubt any lenders are going to call their loans and risk losing the account.
 

The REAL Rocker

Les Paul Froum Member
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Dec 12, 2002
Messages
340
A reporter trying to create a story. All this article is really talking about, after removing the anti-Gibson rant, is lack of financial reporting. And that isn't all that uncommon in large corporations. It reads to me that the original financials weren't going to be reporting as Henry wanted them to be - there are different ways to look at numbers.

Embedded in there is 'remarkable earnings [if correct]' and 'relatively light debt burden'. I seriously doubt any lenders are going to call their loans and risk losing the account.
-----------I agree with you, and there really isn't much of a story here:yawn It's more anti-nonsense, and in the big picture of things, not much is going to happen:bike ...............The REAL Rocker
 

bkeen

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Dec 5, 2005
Messages
447
Gibson has gotten so fat that it can't reach the next donut.

:rofl
 

BluesDisciple

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May 28, 2009
Messages
99
-----------I agree with you, and there really isn't much of a story here:yawn It's more anti-nonsense, and in the big picture of things, not much is going to happen:bike ...............The REAL Rocker

No, no, and no. The last thing any manufacturing company can do is piss off it's creditors. No flow of cash, no flow of materials, payroll, products out the door, or profit. This is the tip of the iceberg. Watch and wait...
 

GotTheSilver

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Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,432
I'm just saying that stick to your core competency (The Les Pauls, SGs, and Hollowbodies) and be the best in the world at it.

Then people would say they have gone stale and are not responding to trends in the market place. Hell, even Radio Flyer introduces new versions of the little red wagon, even though many people would seemingly say they perfected it decades ago.

How can you expect people to continue to buy your product when everyone knows the quality has decreased so drastically.

Does everyone really know their quality has "decreased so drastically"? Has it really decreased? According to many of the posts on this forum, they are producing some great electric guitars these days. It seems like every year, the people in the Historic District are saying how great the current crop of Reissues are (just because it is not 100% historically accurate does not mean it is not a high quality guitar). Many people say they are now producing the best acoustic guitars in the company's entire history. Yes, there are complaints about their quality control, but that is nothing in any way new with this company.

All this article is really talking about, after removing the anti-Gibson rant, is lack of financial reporting. And that isn't all that uncommon in large corporations.

Lack of financial reporting is extremely uncommon in the companies I work with. And could be extremely expensive if it happened, as it would cause default on debt covenants, resulting in a wide array of potential consequences. And Gibson is really not a very large company.
 

GotTheSilver

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Messages
2,432
No, no, and no. The last thing any manufacturing company can do is piss off it's creditors. No flow of cash, no flow of materials, payroll, products out the door, or profit. This is the tip of the iceberg. Watch and wait...

Agreed. The Financial Times is not the kind of paper to post an article just to rant against some company they don't like for some reason. Cash flow is king!
 

Sea Bass

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Feb 19, 2004
Messages
555
Then people would say they have gone stale and are not responding to trends in the market place. Hell, even Radio Flyer introduces new versions of the little red wagon, even though many people would seemingly say they perfected it decades ago.



Does everyone really know their quality has "decreased so drastically"? Has it really decreased? According to many of the posts on this forum, they are producing some great electric guitars these days. It seems like every year, the people in the Historic District are saying how great the current crop of Reissues are (just because it is not 100% historically accurate does not mean it is not a high quality guitar). Many people say they are now producing the best acoustic guitars in the company's entire history. Yes, there are complaints about their quality control, but that is nothing in any way new with this company.

Coca-Cola changed their recipe and it blew up in their face. Not saying they shouldn't move forward, but stick to core competencies. There's no doubt a fine line between not recognizing market trends and being too diversified. It's the whole, jack of all trades/master of nothing.

As for quality, my mistake, I failed to mention I was referring to USA models and not the custom shop. The historical accuracy and quality over the past 10 years for the historics have, to most people's opinions, gotten better .
 

GotTheSilver

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Coca-Cola changed their recipe and it blew up in their face. Not saying they shouldn't move forward, but stick to core competencies. There's no doubt a fine line between not recognizing market trends and being too diversified. It's the whole, jack of all trades/master of nothing.

Coca Cola has also introduced Diet Coke, Coke Zero, Caffiene Free Diet Coke, etc. But I agree with your point. A company that has been around for a while and has a dedicated following needs to balance between keeping their classic products in demand and creating new products that the public will also want.

:salude
 

BluesDisciple

Member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
99
No, no, and no. The last thing any manufacturing company can do is piss off it's creditors. No flow of cash, no flow of materials, payroll, products out the door, or profit. This is the tip of the iceberg. Watch and wait...


I read the article more closely, and had my wonderful wife the M.B.A. (I only have a Masters of Science) aka Materials manager/metrology supervisor in the family read it. We agreed that Gibson is probably broke, facing bankruptcy, and is looking for either new investors and/or a white knight.

Not a good time to be a Gibson :wah... that PRS SC245 is looking really good right now!!!:wail
 

Callaway

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Nov 15, 2009
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213
Sadly but the way things are going a possible cash cow could possibly be the same as the one flooding E-Bay with Wesh Pau's knockoffs now wouldn't that be something. Nothing would surprise me with this guy doing a dump and run walking away with a fat buyout, devil cares who gets the brand..
 

bluesforstevie

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Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
12,771
The later 'Henry J. years' may become symbolic of what Gibson guitars not to buy in future.

Remember a disgruntled or unhappy employee doesn't always produce his or her best work.

It remains to be seen how the present negative climate in the World of Gibson (Nashville, Montana etc.,) will ultimately affect the end product.

Many of us have already heard of QC problems which are perhaps reflecting this downward trend already. I hope not.

Gibson, its employees and customers, all deserve better.

I don't think so...really the company, as far as value goes and considering the high price point of flagship product, is in remarkable shape especially considering the financial climate in the US...everyone seems to be tiptoing around Henry afraid that the one thing they've got going for them, a good product and good demand, may go south too if they press Henry too much...He seems to be quite the savvy businessman, if not completely duplicitous!! He's got his hand on too many buttons....they need an independent board instead of a slightly nefarious autocrat....
 
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57GoldTopAztec

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Aug 30, 2004
Messages
1,072
The Financial Times doesn't need to make up articles. They were responsible, if not a bit too technical, in reporting this out.

HJ can pee of customers, pee of dealers, but the one thing he can't do is pee off investors. Given his history the last several years, it's a safe bet he's running the company into the ground.

I have had no problem finding quality Gibson guitars, but there are way more sloppily made dogs out there than there used to be. Add to that the incredibly inflated prices and the need to save in tough times and that means somebody like me, truly their market demographic, can't afford a new Gibson guitar on an upper middle class salary.

Last new electric guitar I bought was a Collings. It was worth the 2.5 grand. Last Gibson I bought was used and marked down so far I doubt anyone profited but me.
 
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